Norman Plotkin – Fixing The Story With Hypnotherapy

Intro: [00:00:00] Who wants coffee? Who wants a pot of coffee? I just make coffee. You want a cup of coffee? Sure, here you go! Who wants coffee? Anybody else want coffee? And now it’s time for the man with the caffeine, the new tropics for the brain. It’s @CoffeeWithMike, hang in, hang tight, grab your cup and let’s get this thing started.

[00:00:27] Mike: [00:00:27] Hey everybody. Welcome back to Java Chat. We have a special guest today talking about a subject that I haven’t talked about in a long time. Um, I’ll let him explain it more, but his name is Norman Plotkin. Uh, Norman. Thanks for joining us and welcome to Java Chat. 

[00:00:44] Norman: [00:00:44] Great to be here. 

[00:00:45] Mike: [00:00:45] Awesome. Uh, he, he was a public policy consultant and lobbyists for like 25 years. Uh, and then all of a sudden had like a real shift in life. Uh, and I’m going to let him explain that, but, um, uh, this, this is a subject that I have personal experience with and that’s one of the reasons why I wanted him to come on here. Um, because it actually worked for me in comparison to what he’s had. It worked for me in a very small way for him, how it’s worked, you guys are going to enjoy this. So, um, once again, welcome Norman. If you wouldn’t mind, give us a little bit of your story, like how you’re not doing that anymore. You’re obviously doing something completely different now. So how did it all happen? What’s what’s the, what’s the story, man? 

[00:01:34] Norman: [00:01:34] Well, I, uh, I got out of high school. I went in the Marine Corps and- 

[00:01:39] Mike: [00:01:39] thank you for your service very much. Appreciate ya. 

[00:01:42] Norman: [00:01:42] And, uh, I worked in the oil fields and the rock plant, like Fred Flintstone, making little rocks out of 

[00:01:46] Mike: [00:01:46] nice 

[00:01:47] Norman: [00:01:47] rocks and then, and then, um, and then I had a life changing event and my brother was killed in a car accident and I had a wake up call. So I, um, I went back to school and I was on fire. It was 25 hungry on my way to law school. Um, Went to college at SAC state here in the state Capitol. And, uh, got first semester there. I got a job as a clerk in the legislature and, uh, yeah. Oh, rolling. Good. So far. This is a good step. I was, I was a Marine. I was, yeah. It’s place by storm. Right. It’s all right. Uh, so you know, the clerk led to consultant led to, I ran campaigns. I did the policy consulting as the health committee and insurance committee policy consultant. And the state assembly. Then I went to work as a lobbyist for the medical association. And then after a few years I started my own firm and I had my own firm or. Uh, 12, 12 and a half years, and I’ve represented clients, um, before the legislature. So I loved the public policy. Uh, I loved the strategy. Uh, I hated the policy. I mean, you got to know the politics. Like I said, I ran campaigns and you got to know how they get there and the politics and whatnot. 

[00:03:00] Mike: [00:03:00] Uh, I don’t think anybody ever really enjoys the politics of anything. Um, in all honesty. 

[00:03:06] Norman: [00:03:06] Yeah. There’s, there’s some, uh, interesting people out there. Yeah. It’s the politics is kind of it for 

[00:03:12] Mike: [00:03:12] Gee, for a Marine you’re really nice.

[00:03:14] Norman: [00:03:14] Yeah. For that. But for a policy guy or a policy guy, I was, I was a policy guy. There’s lobbyists who are kind of smarmy. And then there’s the political types that are few that really do enjoy, you know, the, the conventions 

[00:03:32] Mike: [00:03:32] There are, I, I, we, we both know many of them. I think another subject for another time, please keep going. 

[00:03:40] Norman: [00:03:40] Yeah. Especially these days. Right? So, um, I just, the money and the, you know, it was too much, I’m sure it was too much. Um, And it wasn’t congruent with my soul’s purpose. I, now I understand now I didn’t know it at the time. Right. Uh, and so I, you know, I got sick and let you know, and it, it, it was slow.

[00:04:07] It came on over a couple of years. I, you know, I, I played ice hockey and, you know, suddenly I, I couldn’t. Keep up. And, uh, I didn’t have any interest in riding my mountain bike. And so I had a good doctor who, who followed it along and did the right test and, and caught it early. 

[00:04:25] Mike: [00:04:25] You guys know as a point of reference for those that don’t understand how in shape you have to be to play hockey. Um, cause I I’ve had a couple of friends and holy crap, the amount of, of stamina, you have to have to be able to maneuver like they do on the ice. It’s insane. 

[00:04:44] Norman: [00:04:44] Yeah. 

[00:04:44] Mike: [00:04:44] I mean, the goalies, the goalies have have just as much, a hard time because that’s a lot of weight. 

[00:04:50] Norman: [00:04:50] Oh yeah. It’s two minutes, uh, with your hair on fire and then get off 

[00:04:55] Mike: [00:04:55] yeah.

[00:04:56] Norman: [00:04:56] Two minutes to rest. And so it’s real spiky. And we had a team called the Capitol hacks. It was a bunch of guys from the capital. Yeah. 

[00:05:02] Mike: [00:05:02] Nice, nice. That’s fun. 

[00:05:05] Norman: [00:05:05] And the men’s league plays at 11:00 PM after the kids are done and figure skaters and everything. And so I lobbied all day. And, and played hockey. And then of course you got to have it sooner.

[00:05:17] Mike: [00:05:17] So you basically double stress yourself first, mentally, and then physically. 

[00:05:21] Norman: [00:05:21] And that physical, that physical was, you know, it was really good. It was good. 

[00:05:25] Mike: [00:05:25] Oh yeah.

[00:05:26] Norman: [00:05:26] It was a good let off the steam kinda cause it’s, it’s really physical. You go. 

[00:05:29] Mike: [00:05:29] Yes, it is again, I’ve got friends that do it and I look at them. I’m going. Yep. Nope. It’s all you bro. I’m going to sit over here and just watch. I love it.

[00:05:39] Norman: [00:05:39] That was kind of, uh, how I, I figured it out. It was, I, I couldn’t keep up. And so I’m like, doc, what’s going on? And it’s like, so they, they, uh, measured me in and tested me for two years until, uh, they sent me to another doctor who sent me to another doctor who pumped a big needle in me who sent me back to send me to a surgeon.

[00:06:00] I’m four doctors in before they said the word cancer. So I had papillary carcinoma. And which is thyroid cancer. The surgeon said, and he had the surgeon said, uh, and he’s hands me this, you know, Xerox copy of what tattered, you know, explanation of it. It says no Tuesday. I’m like Tuesday. 

[00:06:23] Mike: [00:06:23] Jeez, thanks for the heads up doc. Lots of time to plan. What the hell?

[00:06:28] Norman: [00:06:28] This is serious. I got in. So. Uh, so I, I dutifully follow direction and I’ve had the surgery. They’ve had a radical thyroidectomy and a lymph node dissection, and, uh, radiation, and, you know, the thyroid controls everything. So they whipsawed me between hypo and hyper thyroid and getting my, and then scanning me and then radiating me, you know, radiation.

[00:06:54] The doctor comes in with a little led pipe with a lid on it, sets it down and leaves the room says, don’t take the lid off until I leave. Right. So that’s, that’s a real, uh, and then I had to be sequestered for three days. So 

[00:07:05] Mike: [00:07:05] she’s

[00:07:06] Norman: [00:07:06] so I just wanted to get back to normal. Right. Which was drinking too much and eating rich food and, uh, eating stress biscuits, you know, and I didn’t realize that that normal is what made me sick.  

[00:07:19] Mike: [00:07:19] Hmm. I’m, I’m still, I’m still trying to get over the doc saying, don’t take the lid off before until I leave. I’m like, wait a minute. What? 

[00:07:26] Norman: [00:07:26] Yeah, I know. Right. 

[00:07:27] Mike: [00:07:27] Cause I actually, I have a friend um, who’s advanced in age now and she had like the full, she had the full scale radiation on her throat. She had the same thing and today I think they overdid it with her.

[00:07:42] Um, cause now she’s like, she’s shutting down. Um, she’s much advanced in age. She’s in like almost seventies, I think at this point. Um, it’s hard to watch, you know, I mean, I don’t know if there’s anything that can be done for somebody like that at this advanced stage, but at least she doesn’t have the cancer, but now it’s like, how do you live?

[00:08:01] Norman: [00:08:01] I know, there’s see. There’s a whole host of other things that come along with the program. They give you just enough information to understand the high. Uh, um, high propensity therapies. Okay. This is, so this is what they do. Um, and they stick to, they stick to this. I, if I knew then what I know now, I wouldn’t let them take my place.

[00:08:20] Mike: [00:08:20] So, so cool that you said that, because from that time you’ve literally moved beyond that into other therapies, obviously. So where did that start? I mean, how did that happen? 

[00:08:35] Norman: [00:08:35] So. Um, initially I didn’t hear that whisper. I didn’t hear the call. I was like, I was going to get back right back to normal. 

[00:08:45] Mike: [00:08:45] Yeah. Yeah. 

[00:08:46] Norman: [00:08:46] And so this next scan, six months later showed up again and on my 48th birthday, I was waiting.

[00:08:54] Mike: [00:08:54] I thought they got rid of it all. Didn’t they pull everything? 

[00:08:57] Norman: [00:08:57] Or they, they, they cut it, they cut my thyroid and lymph nodes. And, but then six months later, the scan showed and it’s even worse. There was a struggle between my doctor and the baby. They’re ready. You know, the rate that nuclear medicine doctors about whether they take me off the thyroid medication completely and make me go hypothyroid for a period of time. And they’re like, Whoa. 

[00:09:18] Mike: [00:09:18] Yeah, that would really drop you. Yeah. No, no. 

[00:09:21] Norman: [00:09:21] What I’m saying. So there was this struggle between my doctors and so on my 40th birthday, 48th birthday, I was radiated for a second time.

[00:09:29] And that’s when. That’s when, um, fear creeped in for the first, I didn’t know, fear. I didn’t know. I was only five foot seven until, you know, 

[00:09:36] Mike: [00:09:36] but you’re my height. Yeah. We’re giants. Don’t don’t even sweat that, but you have it. 

[00:09:39] Norman: [00:09:39] I didn’t, I’m six feet tall in my mind, you know, I wrote it

[00:09:42] Mike: [00:09:42] straight. We are

[00:09:43] Norman: [00:09:43] I rode bulls as a kid. When the cancer came back. That’s when I knew I tasted fear for the first time, it’s kind of like, you know, the mother of all is something that you will reflect. You can’t get it out at that taste out of your mouth. And so that’s when I knew I had to make changes and listen, my marriage didn’t survive.

[00:09:59] The impact on your family. My children were afraid, my 

[00:10:02] Mike: [00:10:02] it’s devastating.

[00:10:03] Norman: [00:10:03] My ex took pills and, you know, drank too much. And you know, so, um, and so. I had a friend who had gotten out of politics and opened a yoga studio. And she took me through therapeutic yoga for cancer. Nice. And I learned to meditate, which was not, you know, my analytical mind made me great as a policy analyst. And, but it also, you know, can do terrible things to you at 10 o’clock at night when there’s no doctor there. 

[00:10:29] Mike: [00:10:29] Oh yeah. Yeah. How long did it take for you to get used to that? Cause that. From a, from an analytical mind to a meditative mind is that’s not just a one 80 switch. That’s like a complete lifestyle.

[00:10:40] Norman: [00:10:40] It was a complete lifestyle change. I heard about Ayurveda and my dosha or my constitution. And, uh, the, the meditation was. Uh, fairly quick because I was in this awful place. Yeah. It was good to get a hold of this monkey mind now, or it’s going to be ugly. So I learned to meditate. I learned about Ayurveda and, um, I started reading Wayne Dyer, Carolyn Myss.

[00:11:09] Mike: [00:11:09] Nice, nice. Yeah. Good, good. 

[00:11:12] Norman: [00:11:12] So, you know, teachers began to appear, I had attended a Hay House conference in Pasadena. And in 2015, saw Wayne Dyer speak. He was, he was on for an hour. He spoke for three, no one left know, no, no.

[00:11:25] Mike: [00:11:25] When he talks, nobody, nobody leaves the room. No, him, Eckhart. Same, same thing. Everybody wants to stay and see what they got. Yeah,

[00:11:31] Norman: [00:11:31] I know. Exactly. So the teachers began to appear and, um, I kind of asked the universe for direction to put myself into the service of others after reading Dyer’s book, the Power of Intention. Yeah. And, uh, you know, my, my goal was instead of helping corporations and politicians now to put myself into this service of others.

[00:11:52] Mike: [00:11:52] Yeah.

[00:11:52]Norman: [00:11:52] And within weeks of making that decision, I, I was in LA at the time. And I, I learned about this college for hypnotherapy. It’s the only nationally accredited school for the therapy and the States. And, um, it was right there in the Valley where I was living. So, um, My girlfriend at the time knew someone who had gone there. So we had dinner and we talked about it and, and I, I started.

[00:12:20] Mike: [00:12:20] Where were you at the, at the part of the journey defeating the cancer because you you’ve obviously now have been meditating, you have learned a whole bunch of stuff. Were you, were you still in the midst of fighting that or were you about done with it?

[00:12:32] Norman: [00:12:32] Well, 2011 was the surgery diagnosis and the surgery 2012 was the second round of radiation. In 2013. I moved to LA and, uh, to get away from the drama and all of that, I closed down my business and, um, divorced and, and, um, and so I w so that was 2013. I was in LA that’s when. 2015, the Hay House Conference and, um, all of these things and so, uh… 

[00:13:02] Mike: [00:13:02] So you still, you were still dealing with it at that, at that time, it was, there were still remnants of it. 

[00:13:06] Norman: [00:13:06] Well, I will, for the rest of my life, I have to take a pill.

[00:13:09] Mike: [00:13:09] I gotcha. I gotcha. I gotcha. 

[00:13:11] Norman: [00:13:11] I’m nine years from the surgery. Um, I had some, if not activity awhile back, but I saw an acupuncturist and, you know, with herbs and acupuncture 

[00:13:22] Mike: [00:13:22] during this I love various. I think, I think there’s so much that’s dismissed over, uh, the allopathic loved doing the anecdotal explanation, which to me forgive me, but that’s just the haka crap. Uh, I, I grew up. Around that stuff. Me being from Hawaii, acupuncture, biology, things of that nature. Um, being half Hawaiian, we have a whole thing around, around herbology, Chinese medicine, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.

[00:13:49] And I’ve actually seen smaller things. I won’t say cured, but I’ve seen smaller things go away utilizing those, those modalities. Um, so I know they work. Um, I think, I think, I think a portion of it is the ability of somebody to understand and. Not accept. What’s the word be open to, to things working, um, because your mind can shut off any modality that it wants to.

[00:14:16] You can, you can shut off allopathic if you want to as well. I mean, our brains are so damn, since we’re going into hypnotherapy. That’s why I’m saying this. Yes, your brain is so damn strong. It can make you sick. It can make you healthy. What are you willing to believe? And, and unfortunately, because of the way we’re raised, we don’t believe a lot, you know, we believe kind of like what we’re told to believe, which is not necessarily a real safe space, even though they try to make it a safe space. If that makes sense. 

[00:14:48] Norman: [00:14:48] Oh yeah. Well, it’s, it’s big money. I was a lobbyist for the medical association I represent. So, you know, Pharma underwrites everything.

[00:14:58] Mike: [00:14:58] Yes. It was such a, it was such a weird revelation when I learned that insurance companies write coverages according to the regions issues. So like, like in, like in Hawaii, um, dental is a big issue and their policies are written very weak out there just because they know there’s going to be a lot of claims on bad teeth.

[00:15:21] It’s just how it goes. Um, and, and. And everything that goes along with that. But, um, so you you’ve moved into you, you went to the school for hypnotherapy you, how long did that take to get through?

[00:15:35] Norman: [00:15:35] Uh, that was a year and a half. 

[00:15:37] Mike: [00:15:37] And you’ve gotten your certifications. You’ve gotten, and now you have a different kind of practice is what I’m hearing.

[00:15:43] Norman: [00:15:43] I do. I have a different kind of practice. You know, it’s, it’s difficult to start off. You know, I had to straddle two worlds. I, I worked briefly with a former client. I covered 16 Western States as a lobbyist, and I spent nights and weekends and, and then, uh, and then I was ready to launch and I, I did it for a while, but I moved around and, you know, life just gives you opportunities. Right. I don’t see how you frame that. So my mom got sick and I moved in with her to take care of her for the last year of her life. And it was what a, what, a privilege that she brought me in and I was able to help her out. Within a year, my dad had a stroke. And so within a year this time I took care of both of my parents and what a blessing and an opportunity. Had I been that self-important lobbyist. I never would have had the opportunity to do that. I was in the right place and I feel like I fulfilled a soul contract with my parents. And so then, um, I moved back to Sacramento and I was, I wrote, I had written a book, uh, take you cancer, the seven proven steps to healing and recovery.

[00:16:47] And I was working for my publisher. And, so I was, again, straddling two worlds. I was cause I was moving around. It allowed me to work remotely and do and practice it, but therapy on the side. And so I did that for a couple of years and, uh, so, um, but I went, I went all in, uh, last year, I’ve been doing this for six years and, um, uh, many thousands of hours and seen a lot of stuff and I, and I love it, but, um, but that’s, that was the journey, uh, to the hypnosis. Now the power of the mind, my interest in the power of the mind was, you know, born of my cancer experience. Right? So I learned about the placebo effect and the CBO factor, power positive thinking, right. And through my meditation, uh, and imaging imagery journeys, uh, you can. Paint, whatever picture you want. Right. So.. 

[00:17:43] Mike: [00:17:43] I want to, I want to talk about that on the last section and imagery painting, because I think there’s some serious power in doing that kind of stuff. It’s kind of akin to visualization if I, if I’m hearing that correctly. So yeah, we’re, we’re definitely going to get into that. We’re going to take a quick, short break, you guys, 30 seconds. Um, we’ll be back, uh, to talk a little bit more about what motivates and inspires Norman to get up and go do this every day. All right. So 30 seconds we’ll be back here.


[00:18:10] Java Chat, sitting here, having a conversation with Norman Plotkin, uh, who was just sharing his, his journey, uh, dealing with one of the least favorite C words in the language that I, that I speak, which is called cancer. Um, because in some way or another, every one of us by now has been touched by it. Uh, he was touched by it personally. Um, but he also has moved beyond the C word and has come into, um, some greater realities. I’d like to say it that way. Some, some wonderful, greater realities, um, even after having to deal with, um, playing the balancing of the spinning plates, he’s now full-time into hypnotherapy.

[00:18:54] And one of the things that we do in the second section of our show, because we always talk about what motivates you, what inspires you? Who have you, who have you followed? What lessons have you learned? And you know, whether it’s a book or it’s a, it’s a person he mentioned earlier, he went down to listen to Wayne Dyer and he’s, he’s found Eckhart Tolle. And you mentioned one more name, but give us an idea of like, you know, these are the, these were the beginning inspirations, I’m sure of a, of an awakening of sorts. Um, and, and why do you do this? What I mean, I get the servant part, but why? 

[00:19:27] Norman: [00:19:27] Well, you know, you can read Eckhart Tolle, uh, an awakening to your essential purpose, 10 times still not fully understand it. I had, I had to review my cancer in the context of, you know, what was the message of the cancer. 

[00:19:40] Mike: [00:19:40] Right. 

[00:19:41] Norman: [00:19:41] And what, uh, in the rear view mirror, uh, I can see that I wasn’t living my soul’s purpose. And then it took me some time to figure out, well, what the heck is my soul’s purpose? And I meditated a lot on it.

[00:19:54] And, um, You know, I wanted to write about my cancer story and I tried really hard for three years, and then I got a coach and she, and she helped me get it done in 90 days. And, um 

[00:20:07] Mike: [00:20:07] That’s awesome. 

[00:20:08] Norman: [00:20:08] I know, right. Focused attention. Uh, and when my book was published, my son who was 14 or 15 at a time, Saw a five star review on Amazon from a woman who had bought it for her mother who had, uh, breast cancer and wrote glowingly, uh, and thankfully about.

[00:20:33] And so my son saw it and screenshot it and texted it to me. And I said, you know, if one person is better because I wrote the book, then the whole cancer was worth it. And so that’s. That’s kind of it. Um, when I people come in and it’s never for what it’s really about. Yeah. It’s always something larger and they’ve been dealing with longer and the symptom is the thing that they find me, uh, brought them in and they’ve tried everything else.

[00:21:10] And so when I connect dots for them from their own life, they there’s a sense of relief. That there’s nothing wrong with them. That they’re, that they’re normal and they’re human. And what they’ve experienced is true and they don’t need a pill or a surgery. What they needed was someone to listen and put it into context.

[00:21:37] Mike: [00:21:37] How deep do you have to dig when you do this kind of stuff? 

[00:21:41] Norman: [00:21:41] Interestingly, um, I don’t know whether it’s my intuition and I’ve always been sensitive. Imagine how hard that was being a Marine and feeling other people’s feelings. Right. But, um. 

[00:21:54] Mike: [00:21:54] They weren’t issued to you. How could you? 

[00:21:56] Norman: [00:21:56] Exactly, so I, I, I have, I’ve found a way to focus my intuition. Uh, and, but there’s also patterns when you’ve been doing this for a while. You, you know, I, I go right to it. I, I immediately take a family history and I go to their childhood and family dynamics and the experiences of childhood are always going to give me the things.

[00:22:24] I had a client who had fibromyalgia for nine years. Wow. You tried everything including, and the doctors. She used to work for the medical association. She works in the legislature. She got great medical care. And the doctor said, you have this bucket of symptoms. It equals this diagnosis. Here’s pain pills.

[00:22:45] That’s all we can do is make the pain go away. Then she had an eight year struggle with opioids. Yeah, no kidding. It didn’t do anything but mask the symptoms. Yep. So I, um, I did a history with her. She grew up on the other side of the tracks, but she overcame all of that. And… 

[00:23:03] Mike: [00:23:03] Yeah. 

[00:23:03] Norman: [00:23:03] Went to school, became a professional, lives, you know, power woman in a man’s world.

[00:23:07] And, and, um, but she, she got through a divorce and she’d been in the Air Force. She was tough as nails, but she was an emotional marshmallow. And so what she did was when she went through this divorce, She’s somatize that emotional pain. It was too much for her emotions, but not for her strong body. So she somatize that pain into her body.

[00:23:34] And it became this collection of symptoms that was categorized and diagnosed as fibromyalgia. When I asked her if she was ready to give it up, she was cynical. I said, well, if I could give it up, I would have done it a long time ago. I said, if you could, would you? And she said, yes. And once she was willing, I, you know, I walked her through, I used the power of hypnotherapy to have her release it and let it go. And then I gave her back and hypnosis all the things she said she was going to do if it was gone and had her envision it and imagine it. And she got her life back. She’s all over social media. Now. She, she didn’t go anywhere. A week later, I, I gave her two weeks and then I checked back in.

[00:24:15] I said, you ready for your next session? She says yeah, I’m holding my breath to find out what it was. She said. I said, what do you want to work on? She said, motivation. I’ve been sleeping in and depressed for so long. I got to relearn how to live my life. And so I was like, yeah, right, so. 

[00:24:31] Mike: [00:24:31] Isn’t it amazing how people lose their identity when they have that kind of pain holding them down?

[00:24:37] Like literally what I just heard was, I don’t know who I am now because I’ve held everything in this, this identity that I’ve been dealing with now. I don’t know what to do. I mean, is that, is that indicative of most of the clients that you come across? 

[00:24:54] Norman: [00:24:54] Oh yeah. Our stories are important. Carolyn Myss was the other one who I referenced, M Y S S, her book, the Anatomy of the Spirit.

[00:25:02] Mike: [00:25:02] Okay. 

[00:25:03] Norman: [00:25:03] It was another big one. Also she’s on YouTube. You can see a YouTube video of her, uh, called why we don’t heal. We hold onto these stories. We all know people who post on Facebook about their. Diverticulitis or another or whatever malady that may happen. There’s a thing called secondary gain. You get something and you, so we hold onto our stories.

[00:25:25] And what I asked always is, are you ready to write a new story? There’s a saying, I think it was Hippocrates. I’ve can’t remember now it’s just, uh, matters less who, but what it was is wait before you help someone, he’ll make sure they’re ready to give up the thing that made them sick. And so. People hold onto their stories and it becomes their identity.

[00:25:47] And you have to show them a different way and ask them if they’re ready to write a new story. And so you ask what drives me. This is like helping people connect dots, realize that it was, you know, what it was this whole time that there’s nothing wrong with them really, and that they can write a new stuff.

[00:26:07] Mike: [00:26:07] So we’re talking a lot about. Writing a new story. And for those that haven’t picked up on this yet, or haven’t, didn’t catch it. Um, Norman is a hypnotherapist and I think there are some things that. A lot of entrepreneurs and business professionals, even because we’re so ingrained into life. And we don’t know about certain things like this, like when somebody hears hypnotherapy, they think hypnosis and then they immediately go to Anthony Cools in Las Vegas who makes a fool out of everybody because they have, it’s a comedy show.

[00:26:45] I think it would be a good idea to explain what hypnotherapy is and what it isn’t. Um, because I’ve actually had it done. And it did help me get through a pretty rough spot in my life. It wasn’t complete. I should probably do some more of it. Um, it wasn’t complete, but it certainly helped me get past a few serious blocks that I was dealing with at the time.

[00:27:07] Um, so if you wouldn’t mind just kind of giving an idea of, because this whole thing about understanding the story is exactly what we did. Understanding what part of the story I was digging into and holding on and, and, and trust me, I had meat hooks in this sucker until the therapist that I had helped me understand.

[00:27:24] Um, yes. As long as you got the meat hooks in there, nothing’s changing and it’s, it really is. You. Um, that has to make the choice. It’s not, it’s not up to the therapist. The therapist can only help you see it and figure out what to do. The therapist is not the one in control of you. So if you would just a good overview of what it is and what it ain’t.

[00:27:45] Norman: [00:27:45] Yeah, sure. Um, I’m going to give you the, the written explanation from the American psychological association.

Mike: Even better.

Norman: Hypnosis is a state of inner absorption, concentration, and focused attention. It’s like using a magnifying glass to focus the rays of the sun and make them more powerful. Similarly, when our minds are concentrated and focused, we are able to use them more powerfully. Because hypnosis allows people to use more of their potential, learning self-hypnosis is the ultimate act of self control. I was taught that there are three things that are necessary for hypnosis hypnotic, modality, uh, uh, authority, a doctrine or a paradigm, and you have to feel something. So let, let’s go over a couple of examples, a lab coat and stethoscope, the medical books on the wall.

[00:28:39] Do you feel set when you go to the doctor now? Not a good place to have your blood pressure taken? Nope. The white coat syndrome, right? So, okay. So medicine is hypnotic. It’s hypnotic modality. How about this one? Uh, the collar and a robe. 

[00:28:57] Mike: [00:28:57] Black robe? Heart rate’s going through the roof if it’s a black robe, I can guarantee you that.

[00:29:03] Norman: [00:29:03] Oh yeah. Like a white collar and robe, a good book. 

[00:29:08] Mike: [00:29:08] Oh boy. Yeah. There’s another one. That’s it. That’s another feeling.

[00:29:13] Norman: [00:29:13] You feel something in church. That’s a hypnotic modality.

[00:29:16] Mike: [00:29:16] Really? 

[00:29:17] Norman: [00:29:17] Yeah. 

[00:29:18] Mike: [00:29:18] I didn’t know that. 

[00:29:19] Norman: [00:29:19] Oh yeah. So let’s look at something closer to home. Um, doctors Fauci and Birx, uh, virology and epidemiology. 

[00:29:31] Mike: [00:29:31] Yeah. 

[00:29:32] Norman: [00:29:32] You feel something when you watch TV with all the reports about COVID 

[00:29:35] Mike: [00:29:35] Yep. Yep. 

[00:29:36] Norman: [00:29:36] This is a hypnotic. I mean, people are in massive hypnosis right now so. 

[00:29:41] Mike: [00:29:41] Brother, that was, that was a huge statement you just made. 

[00:29:45] Norman: [00:29:45] I know, I hope I don’t get busted on. 

[00:29:48] Mike: [00:29:48] No, you won’t, but I’m not Mark Kay. And I’m certainly not Dan Bongino so I think we’re okay at this point. But, but you’re not wrong. You’re not wrong. And I would go beyond that. It’s anybody that can put out that kind of information that creates a modality, whatever that may be. 

[00:30:09] Norman: [00:30:09] That’s right. So you got to have authority. So look, you see that you see some certificates on the wall, that McNair paradigm is hypnosis and then people feel something. They feel moved to write a new story.

[00:30:22] So, so there are many, there are many avenues I’m very uncomfortable by stage hypnosis. It makes me uncomfortable. It serves a purpose to show people how powerful it is and to entertain them. Yeah. It’s most people’s introduction to hypnosis. I think it’s silly and it really.

[00:30:39] Mike: [00:30:39] I honestly believe that’s dangerous. To introduce them through that modality, mind you, it is for entertainment. I get that part. But is that really what you want to leave the people that are being introduced to it with as a feeling of, yeah, I don’t want to be looking like a monkey again. 

[00:30:54] Norman: [00:30:54] That’s what I have to make everyone understand that it’s not a loss of control. You’re not going to cluck like a chicken. You know, the therapy part is this the important part here is that, uh, the hypnosis is an avenue toward change. 

[00:31:09] Mike: [00:31:09] Yeah, I, and, and I th I, I believe that if people really settle themselves down with the proper frame of what it is and what, it’s not, it’ll be easier for them to be open to, to at least taking a look at it because how many people doing it? I mean, geez, you and I can walk down the street. We can see it in people’s gaits when they walk. You know, they’ve suffered some kind of trauma and you know, they’re hanging onto something. We just don’t know. Yeah. 

[00:31:38] Norman: [00:31:38] Trauma a bitter disappointment. Everyone’s had trauma right. So, but you know, our society makes them a victim. And so. 

[00:31:45] Mike: [00:31:45] I don’t understand that part. That’s the part I don’t get. 

[00:31:48] Norman: [00:31:48] So here’s, here’s an important piece. Viktor Frankl, who was a Viennese psycho psychiatrist, man’s life for meaning, is a book he wrote, Man’s Search for Meaning, uh, he. You know, his famous quote is between stimulus and response between action and reaction is a space. And in that space, laser power, because you get to decide what kind of human being you want to be. 

[00:32:10] Mike: [00:32:10] Yeah. 

[00:32:10] Norman: [00:32:10] Now, if you react kneejerk, you’ve just leaked your power, and that’s what people do today. They leak their power, oh it’s his fault, her fault. 

[00:32:19] Mike: [00:32:19] Yeah. 

[00:32:19] Norman: [00:32:19] Society’s fault, you know? And so rather than take responsibility it’s, and so when you don’t take responsibility, you leak, with that responsibility goes your power. So what I remind everybody is how powerful they are. You know, Joseph Murphy, the Power of the Subconscious Mind, you really can do and be anything you want.

[00:32:43] Mike: [00:32:43] I swear accountability has to be a part of that formula because I think a lot of people have. In, in what you just described, in that space is where the accountability also lies.

[00:32:54] You’re accountable for what you decide to take as far as an action is concerned or not. If you decide to not take an action, it’s still a decision. I was just talking about this on a previous podcast, we just did your accountability matters. And what you decide is what you’re going to be accountable for now, whether that’s self-accountability or what I call general accountability, which is everything else outside of that.

[00:33:18] Your, your choice is going to affect something, someone, some outcome, and it’s going to either be internal, external, or both. What do you want that to be? And I see in today, there’s way too many that are trying to pick the accountability, external, the blank keeps going away to everything and everyone else.

[00:33:39] And it’s like, no, you still have control of you. What you decide to do is going to bring you an outcome. And if you continue to blame your out, your external factors, and mind you, in some cases, there’s some things that are out of control. I get that. You don’t have to stay there. 

[00:33:58] Norman: [00:33:58] Yup. Everything in the external world is illusion and not in control. The only thing that you have control over is your inner world. And when you master your inner world, you can master the outer world. 

[00:34:10] Mike: [00:34:10] Right. And there, there we go back to self-hypnosis, et cetera. Um, that’s, that’s huge, man. Thanks for saying that. I, that actually, that actually just confirmed a few things for me.

[00:34:22] Norman: [00:34:22] Oh, cool. You know, another modality, another hypnotic modality might may be closer to home for you, Ho’oponopono

[00:34:29] Mike: [00:34:29] Ho’oponopono is something that hasn’t been done in a while. I’d probably have to go back home for that one though. Cause there’s a whole process behind that one. 

[00:34:35] Norman: [00:34:35] Well, forgiveness, I use forgiveness in my, I do, I make people do radical forgiveness when I, when I categorize their, their traumas and I, you know, one of the hardest things I do that there’s so much abuse of children.

[00:34:50] I feel like sometimes I get emotional after the session, I have to allow myself to, you know, just, you know.

[00:34:59] Mike: [00:34:59] Process. Yup. Yup. Yup. 

[00:35:00] Norman: [00:35:00] And, uh, but I, you know, I have to help them write letters of forgiveness and it’s a, it’s a progression. It’s how could you, you son of a? And that’s the first letter I forgive you. Second letter is I get it. You were just being you, has nothing to do with me.

[00:35:17] I forgive you, sign. And the third one is aw, you’ve taught me pain and suffering. And I’m better for it, even though it’s gonna be a karmic consequence to you. 

[00:35:25] Mike: [00:35:25] Yeah. 

[00:35:26] Norman: [00:35:26] Thank you. I forgive you. So anyway, so forgiveness is so huge because when you’re mad at someone who does it hurt. 

[00:35:32] Mike: [00:35:32] Yeah. And only you, it doesn’t hurt them. That’s just, that’s just renting your head. 

[00:35:36] Norman: [00:35:36] Yeah. They don’t even know you’re mad at em, like.

[00:35:37] Mike: [00:35:37] Nope, no. In fact, most times they go through life, not even caring either. So it’s like, it’s done. I forgot about it. Doesn’t bother, it doesn’t bother me. Yeah. 

[00:35:46] Norman: [00:35:46] Carry this baggage around it manifests in body centers, you know, unexplained back pain? Carrying the weight of the world. Unexplained leg pain. Can’t run away from your problems. Unexplained arm pain. Can’t fight your way out. There’s a good, another good book. The Body Keeps the Score. 

[00:36:04] Mike: [00:36:04] We’re going to need, we’re going to have all of these guys in the, in the comments. So hang in there for that. Um, we’re going to take another 30-second break. You guys, we’re moving that fast.

[00:36:12] I’m going to take another 30-second bake, break and your tongue holds, what if you can’t, if you can’t talk beyond that and that’s a, and when we come back, we’re going to talk a little bit more about what Norman’s up to now, what he’s planning on and where you can find him. So hang in there and we’ll be right back in 30 seconds.


[00:36:29] Okay. We’re back with Norman Plotkin here on Java Chat. The last section of our, of our podcast. We always like to talk about what’s Norman up to now.? Where’s, where’s he going next? Are the, what things are on the horizon. Um, obviously you have a successful practice, which is wonderful. Uh, you’ve written a book and, and we’ll definitely put the link for the book down below, uh, for those of you that want to get a copy.

[00:36:53] Um, I’ll, I’ll definitely be wanting a copy. Uh, and then of course the other books that you’ve mentioned too, but. What are you doing these days? Where are you at? And, you know, how’s your w, how do people find you if they want to find you? I mean, like, you’ve obviously got something there that’s of definite value.

[00:37:09] Norman: [00:37:09] Yeah. I mean, I’m back in Sacramento and I’m doing this, uh, and, and loving, loving every minute of it. I just wrote my second book, master mind, Master Mind Master Life. 

[00:37:19] Mike: [00:37:19] Nice. 

[00:37:20] Norman: [00:37:20] Uh, it published in July and that was, uh, an effort to try and introduce people to hypnosis and hypnotherapy in a way that’s not jaded like Hollywood or the stage show.

Mike: Thank you.

Norman: Right.

[00:37:35] Mike: [00:37:35] They so overdo it, dude. It’s not even funny. 

[00:37:37] Norman: [00:37:37] I, I know. Right. So, um, you know, trance has been used for as long as humans have interacted. The, uh, chemical medicine is only a hundred years old. Yeah. Which doctors are the witch doctors? 

[00:37:56] Mike: [00:37:56] Yeah. For, for, for a reason. 

[00:37:58] Norman: [00:37:58] Yeah. So I give the history of trance and, um, what science says about it, because until modern times with functional MRIs and other measurement tools, it was all anecdotal.

[00:38:12] Mike: [00:38:12] Yeah. 

[00:38:13] Norman: [00:38:13] And it was largely attributed to the persuasive powers of the hypnotherapists and that’s not really what is about. So, uh, and then how people can apply it in their lives. So that’s Master Mind Master Life. And I had wanted to write that book for some time, and I’m really glad it’s out there now. 

[00:38:29] Mike: [00:38:29] And that’s the one that you got done in 90 days?

[00:38:32] Norman: [00:38:32] That one. I did. I wrote it. I wrote it. I went to my buddy’s house in Tahoe for five days.

[00:38:38] Mike: [00:38:38] You knocked it out in five days? Bruh. 

[00:38:41] Norman: [00:38:41] I took a couple days off and I went back in and tightened it up. So it was about a 10 day process. And, uh, but I thought about it and I had outlined it and I knew exactly what I wanted to write.

[00:38:52] Mike: [00:38:52] So that’s awesome. That’s awesome. 

[00:38:54] Norman: [00:38:54] Um, um, I was hoping to get the second one published this year, but it’s been a crazy year. So what I’m working on now is a book it’s going to be called The Compass. And we are moving from, this is a really, really critical time. 2020 has been really, really weird. Not, not by chance.

[00:39:15] Okay. We’re at the end of an epoch. The Pisces is ending. The materialism and Newtonian mechanics and the, um, patriarchy of the last-

[00:39:29] Mike: [00:39:29] How many of our a hundred years or so? 

[00:39:31] Norman: [00:39:31] 2,500 years or so is ending. And we’re, we’re coming into the age of Aquarius and instead of, uh… 

[00:39:39] Mike: [00:39:39] wait, so the song was early? 

[00:39:42] Norman: [00:39:42] The what? 

[00:39:42] Mike: [00:39:42] The song was early?

[00:39:44] Norman: [00:39:44] They’ve been singing about it since the sixties, the 5th Dimension says the Aquarius. W it is th, this is the w it was dawning then, it’s now sunrise and…

[00:39:57] Mike: [00:39:57] Oh, there we go. Okay. Alright.  

[00:39:58] Norman: [00:39:58] It’s marked by instead of materialism, uh, energy. Yeah. So instead of Newtonian mechanics, quantum the quantum field, and instead of masculine conflict, duality, feminine and collaboration, 

[00:40:18] Mike: [00:40:18] Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I’m starting to see that. I get what you’re saying. 

[00:40:23] Norman: [00:40:23] So it’s really important that men understand how to survive in the coming age, because if your brain and let me know women too, I mean, you know, we look at women politicians, they try and outman the men. They don’t run on their strengths. 

[00:40:40] Mike: [00:40:40] No, they don’t. That’s kind of weird actually. 

[00:40:43] Norman: [00:40:43] There’s a word. 

[00:40:43] Mike: [00:40:43] That is odd. 

[00:40:44] Norman: [00:40:44] Like a man. So in the coming age, the first woman president will be a woman who runs on her feminine gifts of compassion and intuition and, and creativity and collaboration. And so The Compass. So I’ll give you an example. If you dropped a man and a woman into a forest, uh, uh, um, the woman had a compass and the man had a machete. He would hack and slash and hack and slash and oops, wrong way, hack and slash go and knock down the whole thing. And he said, we went the wrong way. She says, I could have told you that. Now that was the old era and the new era take that same man and woman drop them into the forest. And the man says which way.

[00:41:28] Mike: [00:41:28] Yup. Yup. 

[00:41:30] Norman: [00:41:30] And so 

[00:41:31] Mike: [00:41:31] Wait, wait, wait, wait, are you saying that men are actually going to finally start asking directions? Holy shit. 

[00:41:38] Norman: [00:41:38] Otherwise they’re going to get lost. 

[00:41:42] Mike: [00:41:42] I know. I still see them doing it. Some of the  

[00:41:45] Norman: [00:41:45] Well see, that’s why, that’s why my next book is more important than any, any so far. 

[00:41:49] Mike: [00:41:49] We’re going to have to figure out how to get that, get you back on here to talk more about that book then for sure. And we can see if we can help promote it and stuff. Cause that’s, that’s invaluable to me. 

[00:41:59] Norman: [00:41:59] Emotional intelligence is going to be the key to survival in the coming age, understanding and being intelligent about your emotional responses are going to be, and if you don’t, you’re going to suffer.

[00:42:11] Mike: [00:42:11] It’s interesting. There’s a couple of friends that I have online that, that, um, I haven’t met in person, but we’ve had numerous discussions right around this subject of emotional intelligence and how there are so many that are still stuck in the old days of just being, you know, the, the, the 800 pound gorilla that comes in the room and swipes the whole room clean, um, what an analogy.

[00:42:31] But I’ve also noticed that there seems to be a movement. And it’s not the one that’s blaring out in, in the media about all the junk what’s going on. It’s an underground movement of this emotional intelligence starting to wrap, uh, around and into life slowly but surely. Um, and it’s not, it’s not a generational thing. It’s just happening. Um, there, there was this, there’s all this talk about, you know, uh, one world and I’m not talking about the one world order, uh, or the new world order, whatever the heck they call that. That’s not what I’m talking about, but a one world that works together using emotional intelligence and the ability to collaborate and the ability to build something beyond what humankind has been able to do individually.

[00:43:26] And I think inter-dependence, um, I may be wrong, but this is what I’ve been seeing. Interdependent seems to be becoming a greater reality as time goes on because people are finally starting to see where it’s not working and where it can work. And they’re starting to gravitate toward it. At least that’s, I don’t know, am I, am I, am I catching that right? Or is that what you’re seeing or?

[00:43:53] Norman: [00:43:53] I am, and it is, so along with this change, this transition, comes literally the ascension from three dimensional to fifth dimensional. So it was interesting that it was the 5th Dimension that was saying the age of Aquarius. And what does that mean? The three-dimension is height with depth and that’s the world we live in.

[00:44:17] Mike: [00:44:17] Yeah.

[00:44:18] Norman: [00:44:18] The fifth, the fourth dimension includes time. 

[00:44:21] Mike: [00:44:21] Yep.

[00:44:23] Norman: [00:44:23] Time, time is disappearing. It’s moving fast. Time is a construct if humans and we’re moving quickly through the fourth dimension and into the fifth dimension, which is energy.

[00:44:31] And so many of us, there’s a spiritual and emotional unity. We are all one. There’s a, you know, union, uh, uh, collective consciousness. And archetypes, we all are connected. That’s why this whole thing about six feet of separation is so troubling. That’s where my heart energy picks up your heart energy. 

[00:44:54] Mike: [00:44:54] Yeah. I, I I’m well familiar with that whole thing. When they started saying that I was like, you’re trying to separate humankind, what are you doing? You can’t do this to people. And they’re saying, well, six feet is where the virus. And I’m like, no, it’s not. That’s two feet. That’s three feet. We don’t spit that badly.

[00:45:15] Norman: [00:45:15] I know. So there are forces that want to, uh, um, hinder this movement, but it’s, you know, the movement is.

[00:45:25] Mike: [00:45:25] It’s never going to stop, you can’t, you cannot stop what human nature will ultimately evolve into. Forget it. 

[00:45:32] Norman: [00:45:32] And the evolution is coming. And so I lead, I lead a group meditation on Saturday nights. 

[00:45:37] Mike: [00:45:37] Oh, cool. We’ll need a, we’ll need a link to that if you don’t mind. 

[00:45:40] Norman: [00:45:40] Yeah, of course. And, um, So, um, it’s, you know, the Maharishi effect is when collective action that people come together and they meditate in large numbers and they can lower crime and increase health. And, uh, it’s, it’s true. And it’s, there are studies that have, uh, that affirmed it.

[00:45:58] And so when, when enough of us come to this singular place, we’ll lift the others. It just, we have to get to critical mass. And so. Um…

[00:46:10] Mike: [00:46:10] And this is the hardest part is they’re trying to keep critical mass from happening. And they’ve been very good at it. 

[00:46:16] Norman: [00:46:16] Exactly because the manipulation, you know, it’s lucrative. Um, and, and the struggle, the struggle is real. I haven’t owned a television in five years, so here’s what happens. I meditate and I I’m quiet and I’m still, and I ascend and I stay in a place of love and compassion. And then the 3d world tugging at my pant leg. 

[00:46:37] Mike: [00:46:37] Yep.

[00:46:38] Norman: [00:46:38] Now there’s something that gets me riled. The course of miracles there in your heart space. It’s either love or fear either in love or fear. 

[00:46:48] Mike: [00:46:48] Yep. 

[00:46:49] Norman: And at any moment during the day I do check-ins and to say, am I coming from a place of love or fear? Staying in a place of love is ascension. 

[00:46:58] Yeah.

[00:46:58] Norman: [00:46:58] And fear is third dimension.

[00:47:01] Mike: [00:47:01] The vibe, the vibrations are completely different. The frequencies are completely divergent.

[00:47:06] Norman: [00:47:06] Exactly. 

[00:47:06] Mike: [00:47:06] Yeah.

[00:47:07] Norman: [00:47:07] Exactly. 

[00:47:07] Mike: [00:47:07] Yeah. 

[00:47:08] Norman: [00:47:08] And there’s, there’s still that tug of the 3d world on us and no matter how so it’s maintaining the practice, being consistent, practicing with others. This is what’s, and then when enough of us get there. 

[00:47:23] Mike: [00:47:23] One of the things that, and, um, I’m kind of looking for this, maybe even a confirmation bias thing. One of the things that I, I like to try to reaffirm, especially with people that get what we’re talking about, um, has to do with when you’re vibrating at that higher frequency, what other things actually become or what other things trigger awareness when you’re there, versus when you’re here. Cause here seems like there’s 1,000,001 blind spots. 

[00:48:03] Here is that I swear, it’s like you’re on, you’re on the top of a mesa with a panoramic view, a 360 that you could see anything. And, and from there make a conscious choice of what looks right and what looks, what looks not right. Not bad but not right. And what made me, what might make more sense for you to progress towards is that, does that make sense?

[00:48:26] Norman: [00:48:26] Total. Wayne Dyer said when you change the way you look at things, the things you see look different.

[00:48:33] Mike: [00:48:33] so, uh, do you have a website? You do.

[00:48:36] Norman: [00:48:36]

[00:48:39] Mike: [00:48:39] Cool. And are you full up on your, on your clients right now or?

[00:48:44] Norman: [00:48:44] Always room for new clients.

[00:48:45] Mike: [00:48:45] Always room. Okay, cool. You guys want to find him? All of the links are going to be down below, uh, from the, for the books as well.

[00:48:52] The books that he mentioned, for the people that were t, we, we get all of this down there in the comments for you. If you’re watching us on YouTube, make sure you hit the subscribe button and make sure you hit the bell too. So, you know, when we get more amazing people like this to come in and hang out and give us insights and cool stuff to, to chew on.

[00:49:08] If you’re listening on any of the podcast platforms, thank you for doing so make sure you download or subscribe. If you’re listening on Anchor, feel free to give us a little bit of a support. We appreciate every little bit for our little podcast here. Uh, we want to thank you again, Norman, for coming and hanging out. 

[00:49:24] Me personally too. You, you gave me some great reminders. I really appreciate you, sir, uh, for your wisdom and your insights. 

[00:49:34] Norman: [00:49:34] It’s been a pleasure and I’m grateful for the opportunity. 

[00:49:37] Mike: [00:49:37] Awesome. And so you guys know how we love to end this. We love every one of you, every one of you that listens, every one of you that watches, makes a comment, asks a question. We really appreciate you. Thank you for doing so, please continue to do so share this out with somebody, somebody out there is going to be one wondering about this kind of subject. You might’ve even had a conversation with me. Give them a share, give it a, like, give it a comment, ask a question.

[00:50:00] You know, he, he’s going to get the links to this too. So. If you ask a question, good chance he’s probably gonna answer. Um, we love all of you. Thank you very much for doing so. Stay up, stay safe, stay healthy and live for Norman Plotkin and myself. Ciao for now.

[00:50:21] Outro: [00:50:21] For, information on Java Chat, visit You’ve been listening to @CoffeeWithMike on Java Chat. Tune in weekly to this podcast. For the next episode, you can also download or subscribe today on your favorite podcast platform. A production of Oasis media group, LLC. Located in Las Vegas, Nevada. Copyright 2019, all rights reserved.

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