Timothy Yen- Choose Better

Timothy Yen- Choose Better

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[00:00:27] Mike: [00:00:27] Hey, everybody. Welcome back to Java chat and coffee with Mike here. And I get to sit with our guest of the, co-op usually say guests of the day, I guess, to the week or something like that. I got Timothy M with us today and author. And,just,we got to talk about this book, cause you guys are going to be like floored.

[00:00:45] There’s an actual framework for making better choices and he has outlined it in his latest. And that’s exactly one of the reasons we’re here to talk about it. Timothy. Thanks for joining us here on Java chat. 

[00:00:55] Timothy Yen: [00:00:55] Thanks so much Mike for having me. 

[00:00:57] Mike: [00:00:57] Absolutely. So give us a little background about yourself.

[00:00:59] Where are you from what you do, how you been, you know, how’d you get to where you’re at today. 

[00:01:04] Timothy Yen: [00:01:04] We’ll start. I’ve been, I’ve been really well, very thankful for,just the opportunities I’ve been given as such as being able to launch this book.I reside in the Bay area, Northern California Bay to be exact.

[00:01:17] So yeah. Yeah. So I’m out there in those parts and,by trade I’m a clinical psychologist,AKA healer. So I’m really big. 

[00:01:30] Mike: [00:01:30] Oh, you liked it. You liked the proper titling. It’s nice. 

[00:01:32] Timothy Yen: [00:01:32] Not  just yet. Yeah. Yeah. But I, I love being able to empower people, heal people, change people’s narratives.that that’s kind of what I’m about giving them real life practical skills, which is what this book is about.

[00:01:45] And. Yeah, I have a beautiful wife and a 16 month old son at the time of this recording the life. I’m a new dad. Yeah. Congratulations. 

[00:01:58] Mike: [00:01:58] I’m not quite a new dad. I got a 19 year old. Is it a boy or girl? Boy, I have a son. You have a lot coming anyway.not, not throwing anything bad out there. I’m just saying you have a lot coming in a lot of wonderful, there’s a lot of wonderful events that are gonna happen,in a boy’s life that you get to get to watch as he grows.

[00:02:17] It’s awesome.so yeah, I currently practice as a therapist now in East Bay. 

[00:02:25] Timothy Yen: [00:02:25] Correct. So, okay. Right now I am working. Part-time at a hospital called Kaiser Permanente, and then I also have my own business as a private practice owner. 

[00:02:35] Mike: [00:02:35] Well, that’s cool. That’s cool. Right on. And you’ve been doing that  for how many years?

[00:02:38] Timothy Yen: [00:02:39]I’ve been doing Kaiser for about six years and I’ve been doing private practice for about two and a half. Nice private practices, different it’s a little more freer. Isn’t it? It is, he can be your own man, be your own boss. And you know, you get to choose the people that you think are really good fit.

[00:02:55] Versus if you work for, for a hospital, you see anyone that comes through the door. So it’s a little bit of a different,system, but folk. Great. 

[00:03:05] Mike: [00:03:05] Awesome. Awesome. Now here comes the fun. How did you choose to do that? 

[00:03:11] Timothy Yen: [00:03:11] Well, I stayed that I didn’t choose it. It chose me. It chose me. 

[00:03:16] Mike: [00:03:16] Bring it, bring it.

[00:03:19] Timothy Yen: [00:03:19] And when I tell you the story, it’s going to make a little bit more sense.So let’s hear it out of high school. I really wanted to be a journalist. So I did something like a broadcasting little radio show in high school for the morning announcements. Thought it was the coolest thing next to sliced bread. So right out of high school, I’m like, that’s what I’m going to do.but I didn’t want to pay for college.

[00:03:43] I’ll be frugal, but I was like, I don’t want to like pay for college. I want the government to pay for my schooling. So I decided to enlist in the U S army at a high school. Thank you for you, sir, journalists, right? Thank you. Yeah, but then. I realized that I was severely colorblind, which is kind of weird, right?

[00:04:01] That it took me till 18 to realize this deficit. But when I went through the med system realized I was severely color blind. So I couldn’t be a journalist that thought crossed off the list. Wow. Again, one of the great mysteries of the universe, not really sure what the hell is that important to report the news, but whatever the case may be that got crossed out, and one of the few jobs leftover.

[00:04:25] What’s mental health? Mental health does not need color apparently. No, no.

[00:04:29] Mike: [00:04:29] Although they, they, well, cause you know, they just do black ink pretty much.

[00:04:35] Timothy Yen: [00:04:35]  That’s really what got me into the field. Yeah, it was, was I wanted to be a mental health specialist cause it was the next best thing to journalism.

[00:04:45] And what was funny was if I was really candid, I thought it was a sham job. I was like, wait, wait, wait. You’re telling me that you can pay me to like, listen to people, talk about their problems. Funny that it’s such a gig. And until I went into the army, I realized now people got some real pain, like some really Methodist stuff that people go through.

[00:05:10] And I realized, wow, it’s really meaningful. I like what I’m doing, but I was very ill equipped as a 18 year old. Oh sure. Oh, sure. 

[00:05:20] Mike: [00:05:20] I can’t imagine hearing some of the stories from some of our veterans.

[00:05:22] Timothy Yen: [00:05:22] I mean, yeah, it’s hard. So I knew that when I got out of the service, I was going to go back to school to pursue a, get as equipped as I could.

[00:05:33] And that’s what led me to be a psychology. 

[00:05:36] Mike: [00:05:36] Well, first off, thanks again for your service. And that is a heck of a story as far as,a literal ship. That is one hell of a shift from, from being one that tells to being one that listens. Sure.and then listening to some of the stories. I have friends that were nurses in the VA, and I remember one story.

[00:05:59]they had a,Vietnam vet. This is obviously, this is a long time ago, but they had a Vietnam vet that they would have to strap on every evening. And in the daytime, he would say, please, you’re going to hear some pretty wild stuff at night, do not come into the room. Don’t pay attention to it. Cause there’s nothing to come.

[00:06:18] And at the time there was nothing that could be done for him.but he would literally, there’d be screaming all night from his room and they had to tie him down.but it was because that’s how badly he got messed up when he was in Vietnam. Yeah. Now we have all our veterans coming home from the middle East.

[00:06:38] It doesn’t matter where you come from. Whether it’s Afghanistan or Syria, whatever, they’re going through a lot of stuff too. So yeah, there are, but now there are treatments that are actually,proven working that are happening.I met a,I met a medic who,was working with a company that created a machine that puts you into a theta state and helps you readjust.

[00:07:06] And he says,I still have the memories, but I no longer have the anxiety, which is fun and good. If you can at least get the, yeah. I mean, you may never get rid of the memories. I mean, it’s emblazoned, but at least you can, you can now handle it. It’s about something different. So, so now that you’re out and you’re dealing with private,private practice, what more are you seeing today?

[00:07:29] What are you seeing now? 

[00:07:30] Timothy Yen: [00:07:30] Well now, I guess it depends on which population we’re talking about. 

[00:07:36] Mike: [00:07:36] So with, with the Haas you still work with, do you still work with veterans at all or 

[00:07:39] Timothy Yen: [00:07:39] directly? I do have a few veterans on my, on my caseload. It’s not because they’re a veteran. That’s why I’m seeing them. They just happen to be a veteran with some challenges.

[00:07:47] Okay. Got it. But,the population is,some of them,unfortunate to be able to serve,kind of the Medi-Cal. Medicaid is like population through the hospital. So I, you name it. I’ve seen it in 

[00:08:02] Mike: [00:08:02] the challenges. We get plenty of it at home too. As much as we see it outside, there’s a lot that goes on in Hans’ lives.

[00:08:11] Timothy Yen: [00:08:11] So, yeah. So just, and because of the pandemic as well. Yeah. That’s not at a whole nother level 

[00:08:16] Mike: [00:08:16] that I was going to say that exacerbated the problem that didn’t make it any easier. I’m sure.so when you’re, when you’re looking at well, how did you consultant? You got this book just came out the title choose, choose better.

[00:08:29] Correct. Dropped on a dped on a 26 last month, which by the way, congratulations. That’s huge. Thank you.but how did you get to that? I mean, you’re, you’re, you’re in a, obviously you’re helping people make choices,come up with a new framework. So how did that happen? 

[00:08:48] Timothy Yen: [00:08:48] So I actually had dinner with a, with a friend who is a pretty high executive in the tech world.

[00:08:54] And, me and a partner of mine were in the midst of starting a business together. I wanted to ask her,what could really serve her. Employees or her, her staff. And the thing that she told us was critical thinking, how can you help my executives? My staff, my supervisors think better given that there’s a lot of deadlines, stresses,Competition between different specialties in terms of who thinks they’re right, or have a better idea.

[00:09:28] And she’s like, is there any way that you can help them streamline the process, work through their emotions and make better decisions. So that’s where the idea was birthed that, that dinner. And then I sat down, thought about a little bit more and I realized, wait, this is not a tech industry. Issue. This is a han issue, right?

[00:09:49] Hans are faced with. Some pretty challenging things in their lives and sometimes get overwhelmed by just the sheer nber of things that are happening and what they’re feeling. And I thought about a lot of the work that I’ve had the privilege of doing with my clients. And I realized, Hey, there is some general themes in terms of the healing process to helping people make powerful, authentic, well thought out choices.

[00:10:17] There is these kind of key. Component that’s purposes. Every time backward idea of writing a book came to mind, I was like, I think I could encapsulate that in a really accessible way for the common man to read. And it can impact people far beyond what I could reach in a office. One way I can only reach a small nber of those people that maybe this book can reach many more people that could.

[00:10:45] You know, make better decisions for their lives. 

[00:10:47] Mike: [00:10:47] Yeah, there’s a, there’s a, there’s a lot to be said for that just in the, just in the han condition alone.when we’re thinking about people making choices, a lot of times they still choose emotionally versus following a path of logic or, you know, following the true facts of what it is that they’re looking at it.

[00:11:04]and, and I’m talking about life decisions, you know, sometimes people will go. R E even your path, if you think about it, you know, when you look at the decisions that you made and then what you ended up doing,you ended up choosing at first emotionally, and then realizing logically afterwards. It’s like, well, no, this was a good, this was a good move.

[00:11:25] It’s interesting that if, if I think completely I am HL and five bucks, which gets you Starbucks,that. If we took more time to realize the reality of what was really going on and follow a logical path, that better decisions would be made. Unfortunately, the han condition is to think emotionally and choose from there.

[00:11:48]so as you wrote this book, what did you find? I mean, what, what kind of revelations did you realize besides that? What other revelations did you have? 

[00:11:58] Timothy Yen: [00:11:58] Well, I wouldn’t necessarily say the revelations as they are highlighting the science behind why people don’t make good choices. So that’s some of my beginning chapters, let’s just spell it out and put it on the table because when people realize that.

[00:12:13] You know, there’s things like unconscious forces at play that creepy knee-jerk reaction to respond. If people are just more well that more aware that that’s happening, be have a fighting chance to counter some of those reactions. But I definitely address a lot of those,bad choice making variables in the book.

[00:12:34] And then I present the framework, which is like a four-part. Questions theories to help people walk through thinking things through identifying who they are, their values, really making choices that come from their being, rather than some of these other. What’s that thing, like the squeaky wheel gets the grease, like whatever it seems to scream out at you first, that’s the thing you pay attention to the framework is really doing its best to quiet the outside white noise and focus in on the real data points that are going to matter for your decisions.

[00:13:11] Mike: [00:13:10] That was actually a piece of advice given to me by an old hell’s angel.

[00:13:13] Timothy Yen: [00:13:13] Oh, nice. 

[00:13:18] Mike: [00:13:18] Believe it or not that out of all the places of wisdom that it would come from, he literally looked at me and he went. Whatever’s screaming, the loudest, shut it out. There’s something quiet behind it that you’re supposed to be paying attention to.

[00:13:26] And I’m looking at them going that’s the hell’s angel. Tell me, I’m like, okay, don’t hurt me. He was nice. He was a good friend, but it literally, he was one of those guys was like, listen, I’m going to give you some wisdom here. If it’s a choice between your head and your heart, follow your head because your heart is going to get you in trouble.

[00:13:46] And if there’s a lot of noise, Shut the noise off. There’s something quiet behind it that you really should be paying attention to. And I was like, okay, I’m in. Cool. Thanks bro. [00:13:58] Timothy Yen: [00:13:58] You know, it sometimes comes out of the most unlikely places. Doesn’t it. If you’re willing to listen, wisdom is everywhere and everywhere.

[00:14:05] Mike: That’s the problem is most people think just because of a,what’s the word. Oh, of course. Brainfart time. It has to do with the fact that, Oh, preconceived notions that there isn’t wisdom someplace, just because of a bad connotation. There we go around some thing or some title and it’s like,no, every han has wisdom.

[00:14:30] You need to, you need to keep your ears open just in case. 

[00:14:32] Timothy Yen: [00:14:32] And if you don’t, it’s your loss, right? Well, if you don’t listen, that’s on you, the universe, God is talking to you. You’ll shut it out. I mean, Hey, that’s on you, man. Yeah. 

[00:14:45] Mike: [00:14:45] Good life. Somebody got the experience out there that you don’t, you might as well at least stick it in your, and this, and this is something that I’ve lived with for years.

[00:14:52] Anytime I get advice from anybody, I don’t care who it is, whether it’s relevant that moment or not. I stick it in the filing cabinet because whoever you. You, if you end up in that situation and you don’t have that file ready, or that file isn’t there, which happens to a lot of people. Yeah. You you’re, you’re gonna, you’re going to be filing your own report and that’s not going to be pretty.

[00:15:15] Timothy Yen: [00:15:15] It’s going to come at a cost. It’s going to come on as there will be. 

[00:15:19] Mike: [00:15:19] No I on this investment, sorry, 

[00:15:22] Timothy Yen: [00:15:22] there will be, but it’s a much higher cost than you wanted to pay because you could have just listened to exactly. Not pay the costs. 

[00:15:33] Mike: [00:15:33] That’s cool, dude. That’s awesome. All  Cool.People can find the book guys, just for those of you, I’m going to say it now, even though I say it at the end, you can find the book on amazon.com.

[00:15:42] The link will be down below. Make sure you grab a copy.obviously this book is written for anybody.there is there, is there anything in particular you’d like to icing the cake? If you will, is there anything you’d like to, to add on to why this book should be a part of your library? 

[00:16:01] Timothy Yen: [00:16:01] Well, let’s talk about the audience, so I didn’t have the audience in mind.

[00:16:04] Okay. W when, when you write a book, at least that’s what I was told. You want to have the audience in mind, they call it an avatar, like your ideal reader, who you really shooting for. And so I don’t want to be so arrogant and be like, yes, this books for everyone, even though I think it really is. But the key audience really comes down to two groups of people.

[00:16:24]audience nber one is people who are generally indecisive. You just have a really hard time. Making a call,feeling good about the choices that they make, the seem to stay in a perpetual state of confusion, or just passiveness straight up passive. Just, I don’t want to choose anything. I don’t want to be wrong about my choice.

[00:16:45] So, so that’s group nber one. And then group nber two is people who make regrettable choices. So sometimes they just make it too quickly. They haven’t really thought it through. They pull the trigger and realize, Oh, shoot. I shot the wrong person like that. That’s not what I was trying to go for, but now I have to pay that hyper for what I’ve done.

[00:17:05] Mike: [00:17:04] Hopefully literally shot the person. But yes, that’s a virtualized. That was a, that was, 

[00:17:08] Timothy Yen: [00:17:08] yeah. So about aiming for those two groups of people. I help people who are indecisive, be empowered to be more decisive. And then people who have no problem making a choice, digital always make great ones to make better ones.

[00:17:23] My job here is done. That that’s really what the book is aiming for. So essentially, yeah, 

[00:17:27] Mike: [00:17:27] everybody, because that everyone has at one point or another, either been one or the other or have been both. Okay. Yep. Yeah. So good call hand-in-hand for those that are listening. Get the damn book,

[00:17:44] guys. We’re going to take a short 30 second pause. When we come back, you know, in a second, the next section, we’re going to talk about what inspires, what, what gets him motivated to do what he does in the mornings and every day. So we’re going to take a short 30 second pause and we’ll be right back 

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we’re back. Java chat coffee with Mike here, sitting with Timothy yen author of the new book.

[00:18:01] Choose better. Second section is always the same. We always ask our guests, you know, what inspires them, what motivates them? What gets them moving in the morning?which leads us to, you know, what kind of books have you read in the past that have inspired you? Or what kind of mentors or people that you,have taken after and follow?

[00:18:18] And they listened to the whole thing about taking advice, which we just got through.what, what wakes you up, man? What gets you? I’m going to asse the little one is definitely one of them, but what else? 

[00:18:30] Timothy Yen: [00:18:30] So I did want to go on, on a slight tangent in saying that,the reason why I stuck with being a psychologist was actually for two reasons, which will connect to what motivates me every day.

[00:18:46] I needed to find a line of work that check these two boxes, a box nber one is it has to be interesting. There has to be a certain level of variety challenge or else. You know, if I’m just putting the same car part on this vehicle day in, day out. Like that would be really tough for me, but I needed to know that there’s something that was,alive, something that was,new and challenging and people.

[00:19:16] People are it, people are all those things. Yeah. I kind of joke and say that I could see 10 people who struggle with depression, but every single one is so vastly different in terms of how they got to where they are and the treatment becomes vastly different, the customized to what’s going on. So I love that part of my work and the second part, which is equally important, if not more important is that it’s meaningful work.

[00:19:42]  Meaning that. I need to know that it’s making some sort of contribution that it’s making people’s lives better than my time here on earth.what better? Because I was here because of what I was willing to, to give back and, and help change people’s trajectories from wherever they were headed to somewhere where they actually want to go.

[00:20:03] So those are kind of the two things that really resonated with me in this particular field. And I get to do that. Pretty much 

[00:20:10] Mike: [00:20:10] every day. That’s huge, dude. That’s huge.the simple, the simple,the simple part of it being that there’s an effect. It affects other people’s lives in a positive manner.

[00:20:25] That’s both admirable and,just super courageous dude, because you’re in a field that’s you see some real heavy stuff they have. Yeah. I was about to say heavy shit, because it pretty much is 

[00:20:40] Timothy Yen: [00:20:40] not always, but yes, some of them are very heavy. Yeah. 

[00:20:43] Mike: [00:20:43] And, and, and maybe you could share a couple of stories of, of how that’s worked out as far as the things that have worked.

[00:20:52]and those that you have served, not necessarily a specific story, but how, how you’ve seen it change someone’s life or something of that nature, because I’m sure that the end result is just proof in the pudding. So to speak that you made the right choice. 

[00:21:05] Timothy Yen: [00:21:05] Yeah. So that’s a really great question, Mike, which is how do I even know that this stuff works are people’s lives actually improved or am I in this weird delusion that I think it is, but there’s really no evidence that that’s actually happening.

[00:21:20] And if you were to ask me the obvious answer is the feedback that I get from my clients. They’re the ones that tell me straight up that. You know, this, the evidence I was here and now I’m doing this kind of stuff with indeed kind of healthy relationships that I wasn’t in before.I, I found more purpose meaning in the work that I do.

[00:21:43] So, so that kind of transformation does occur through the process of counseling and how do I help people get there? What I would say is a lot of people come into. My office or come work with me because there is some mean agony of pain, of some sort of depression, anxiety, whatever it is, plaguing it. 

[00:22:12] And that’s what gets them into the meme. And for those of you, who’ve never tried counseling or have no idea like what that world is about.what I want to tell people is that is what gets people in the door. But that’s not really why they’re here. They think that they’re going to come see some magician.

[00:22:33] That’s going to like wave some wine and the pain is going to be  And I tell people, I’m like, if I could do that, I would totally do it. If I could wave a wand and just make the pain go away, I would totally do it. However, the pain is actually not a problem. 15 is the by-product is it the byproduct of a real problem?

[00:22:55] Just like the pain is not the issue. It’s your broken leg, broken leg is issue. Yeah. Or a cast. Right? But the pain is what screams at you saying, Hey Houston, we have a problem. We have an issue. You want to take a look at it?  So in a weird way, pain is actually a gift. If you didn’t experience the pain, you would not know to take a look under the hood to figure out what’s actually wrong.

[00:23:25] So part of the process is just getting some insight. Just give me some clarity too.Rick what’s really happening. And sometimes when people are in. The state of confusion, a lot of stress, multiple things that multiple fires interactively that they’re trying to put out. They can’t think straight. They don’t really know what the problem is, but they are severely depressed or anxious or whatever the case may be.

[00:23:52] And just being able to walk through that process and identifying, Hey, I think this is the primary issues. You don’t have the kind of connections that you want or,the work that you do, even though it pays well is meaningless to you. You don’t feel like you’re making a difference at all.w whatever the case may be when people have that aha moment and saying, no, you’re 

[00:24:16] I thought this was a problem, but it’s really not. It’s really this Ben the work really begins when that insight is checked in and there’s some clarity about what’s really causing them discontent. Then we start talking about collaborative problem solving. What is it that’s missing or what kind of strengths that you already embody?

[00:24:37] Can we use to help you work through the issues? And. Achieve or cultivate the kind of results that you want in your life. Do you see that process? 

[00:24:50] Mike: [00:24:50] Yeah. Can you, do you find a lot of that has to do again with what you wrote about, which is choosing better. Do you find that a lot of times it was choice choices made emotionally or choices just made improperly period.

[00:25:03] You know, it’s not always about emotion. Sometimes you just make bad choices, but you, 

[00:25:07] Timothy Yen: [00:25:07] because I’m missing yeah. Or missing information because they didn’t take the time to kind of look into it or sometimes. You did the best that you could because that’s all that you have at your disposal at the point.

[00:25:18] Mike: [00:25:18] And the twist was still not, not good. Yeah. Don’t no, I get that too. That makes sense. When you, when you are, when you’re in the midst of that. And I think a lot of people I’ve had other healers and counselors on here, and since we’re on that subject, let’s, if you don’t mind for just a couple minutes, let’s go dig into that a little bit as I think, I think a lot of people miss the fact that counseling is not for, cause there’s still this stigma around it of counseling is not for me.

[00:25:42] You know, I’m not, I’m not that person. And yet I think a lot of people miss that constantly, isn’t about being that person, you know, using the word crazy or whatever it is that they want to use. A lot of times, it’s just, you may not see the signs. You might, you might be internalizing your anger and not even realize it.

[00:26:00] If anybody remembers the movie anger management, which was fricking hilarious, but it brought a real issue to light and actually had me. Taking a look at my own life and going, am I internalizing anything? And, you know, figuring out from there, whether I needed to go get some help or not and stuff.and I have been to counselors could be randomly and, you know, intermittently for different things just because it’s like, hold on a second.

[00:26:28] Something’s not right there.maybe I need to go talk to somebody because I’m not the specialist. I mean, I know me to a degree, but it might take somebody else from outside. What do you tell somebody to get them to understand? It’s okay. To, to, to meet with a counselor, not see a counselor, but meet with a counselor and sit down and, and go dig.

[00:26:49] You know, it’s nothing wrong with digging. You might as well know what’s going on, right? 

[00:26:53] Timothy Yen: [00:26:53] Yeah. If you were asking me, it’s really a matter of. Self-respect and that’s 

[00:27:04] Mike: [00:27:04] yeah, that’s a good way to look at it. 

[00:27:06] Timothy Yen: [00:27:06] You love yourself enough to fight for a higher quality of life. And if the answer is no, then don’t get counseling, like figuring it out.

[00:27:14] I mean, in here, and I’ll be really honest with you. Most people could probably get through life. Decently without counseling. I’m not going to toot my own horn and be like, Oh, everyone should come get counts. Everyone needs it. I’m not that arrogant. But, but what I would say is what would take someone maybe two years of their life to figure out this one thing, could it be unraveled within a few weeks?

[00:27:41] I mean, that’s some good ROI. Like you can have your life back because you have the cutting edge insight, or being able to just change the trajectory of how you live your life. My big question is why not? Why would you deprive yourself of saving tons of time? Getting the wisdom as we were talking about earlier so that you can actually live.

[00:28:04] In, in the state of power.  And being able to live the life that you want, if it’s just this pride or money or whatever, the reason may be to not get that kind of assistance again, that that’s on you. Yeah. I mean, it’s, it’s a free country. You can do whatever you want, but I believe that. Everyone in their own life is too close to their own life.

[00:28:27] There’s no objectivity, right? Like there’s just this like closer to the skin. And so you, you may know things about yourself and about your situation, but inherently there’s going to be blind spots. Everyone has a blind spot. All, they can’t see their own.Lots of experiences, preconceived notions that keep us blind.

[00:28:47] Like we just can’t see it from a reality standpoint. And how powerful is it to be able to talk to someone that isn’t so intermingled into your life and can see it from a third person perspective and be like, Hey, have you ever seen it this way? Or I think this is really what’s going on in the background that you may or may not be aware of.

[00:29:08] That that’s worth this way to solve in my opinion. So like you said, you don’t have to do a forever, but if you can just break through some of these things that are really bring you back, why not? 

[00:29:19] Mike: [00:29:19] So, so two things, two points that I want to throw out there because I 

[00:29:22] Timothy Yen: [00:29:22] wanted to take away the economics issue.

[00:29:25] Mike: [00:29:25] Most health plans today include some kind of mental health element. So, if you think you’re not able to afford it, go check with your employer or go check with. Cause I believe even Medicaid in most States, have it go check to see if you can get a referral to a mental health expert, because it’s not going to cost you if that’s the case.

[00:29:45] Now, if you’re in one of those situations where you can’t okay, I got it. But for the most part, most of us can, we just don’t know. The other one is that, that whole having a third party, taking a look and I’ve always. I’ve always told people,my friends and like, look, this is what I’m seeing. And the only reason I’m seeing this is because I’m outside of your storm.

[00:30:06] When you’re in the middle of a tornado, you can’t see shit. But those of us that are standing on the outside, even if the damn thing’s 40 kilometers wide, we can still see in and see where you’re at and see what you’re doing. And this is what we see. You might want to make some different choices or maybe try this instead, or something of that nature.

[00:30:24] Now that’s just being a friend when you’ve got somebody who’s a meteorologist that understands the storm even better than we do. Probably a good idea to go, try to get that figured out. 

[00:30:35] Timothy Yen: [00:30:35] Yeah, that’s it? Yeah. That’s a great analogy. Yeah. They know weather,  They know weather. So you’re stuck in your own muster.

[00:30:41] What kind of storm, but you’re in some sort of storm. Why would you not take an hour of your week? To figure out what kind of storm it is, how they get the heck out of it. How did you get into the storm to begin with and what was the practical next step to move out of the storm? Oh, it’s a no brainer.

[00:31:00] Mike: [00:30:59] Isn’t it interesting to see how hans willingly walk into the middle of storms without thinking of it? Well, where, where they could be taking a nice, fresh step in a, in a, in a nice and sunny day, they see a tornado to go, Ooh, let’s see what that looks like. And they run right into the middle of it. And then all of a sudden, so this, this is going to bring us to talking again now a little bit more about the framework of, of choose better.

[00:31:23] And we’re not gonna, we’re not going to give all steps, but we’re going to talk about maybe one or two.and I, I, cause I think it’s valuable. And then after that, They’ll have to get the book. It’s cause I think a lot of, I think a lot of people miss, and I’m real excited to hear that or read the book and see the whole thing.

[00:31:43] I think a lot of people miss the preparation of making a choice. They, they, like you said, a lot of people rush into things without sometimes not looking for the information. Sometimes not having the information and realizing they can choose not to choose and walk away.cause I I’ve, I’ve had friends that have done it.

[00:32:03] They’re like, well, I had to do it just because I’m like, but facts. And they’re like, yeah, well, I didn’t know that at the time. I’m like, yeah. So facts are there and now you’re going to come on, dude. Actually like we have to, we have to address, I think that part too. So,We’re doing real good on time, guys, we’re going to take another short 30 second break.

[00:32:25] When we come back, I want to talk a little bit about that and then what’s in the future, obviously. Cause I’m, I’m, I’m hearing, I’m hearing podcast screaming in the back of my head, whether you have one or not. I don’t know. We’ll find out in a second, but that should be something, especially when maybe you can call it the choose better podcast.

[00:32:41] Well, we’ll figure that out. We’ll be back in about 30 seconds right after this. 

***

we’re back here. Java chat coffee with Mike and Timothy yen. You got some, you got, you gotta have some letters after your name. 

[00:32:53] Timothy Yen: [00:32:53] I do. What are they? ID society. 

[00:32:57] Mike: [00:32:57] There it is. Yeah, there we go. Okay, cool. I just want to make sure that we get that all in there.

[00:33:02] So, you know, I was like, well, he’s just a dude right now. Now he’s, he’s a, he’s a psychologist. He he’s real. He’s a real doctor. He’s the real deal. All  So we’re back on this book called choose better. There’s a framework that you laid out.is this something that you came up with or is this just something you you realize was real or how, how, I mean, 

[00:33:23] Timothy Yen: [00:33:23] how did it come to be?

[00:33:24] So I’ll be really honest. I’m not that smart. So it’s not my ideas in terms of creating the framework, but it is my idea in terms of configuring it. In a way that I have, but putting it into science. Yeah. Just tons of science. There’s tons of, much smarter people than I have, who have contributed to this framework suite, but I’m the one that configured the order and the questions that are related to the pieces to them.

[00:33:53] Mike: [00:33:53] That’s awesome. Cool. And then the framework itself, you said there’s four, four pillars, right? Four pillars four. Okay. So let’s, let’s pick on, let’s pick on two of them. Two that are two that are the ones that you see people failing at the most 

[00:34:10] Timothy Yen: [00:34:10] first pillar. So the pillar, the first pillar has to do with your emotions or your feelings.

[00:34:15] So, so the big question that I encourage people to ask is what are my feelings telling me? What are my emotions trying to tell me? And I started with that because the way that our brain is engineered. The piece that wish emotions hit your brain is something like one 10th of a second. Like it hits you so fast that your logic brain is just catching up, just catching up to try to figure out, like, why, why are you feeling this way?

[00:34:45] Because the feelings are so fast. Right? So I start with that pillar because if you’re feeling something intensely. It’s probably important, whatever that person’s situation, whatever you’re confronting, if you feel a certain way, the stronger, the feeling, the more important it is to you, the million dollar question is why, why is it important to you and our emotions?

[00:35:12] Hello tale. There, there is something behind the emotion that most people, depending on their cultural family upbringing. Tend to ignore the digits. Like I don’t want to feel angry or I want to feel sad. I’m just going to suppress suppress, like, pretend I don’t feel that way. And I’m like, no, no, no feelings are your friends or your feelings are actually trying to tell you something.

[00:35:32] If you would only take a moment to listen and back to the wisdom there’s wisdom in your feelings. So one of the examples that I give is anger. Anger is a. A hot topic, fingers and good. It’s something that we’re not really sure how to deal with it because it’s so explosive. It is powerful and it kind of hijacks your brain and you’re just like, ah, and so anger is.

[00:35:59] And I explain it, I call it the seven universal feelings and there’s like a lot of varying degrees. Yeah. Like anger has a lot of variations. Like slightly annoyed would be on one end of the spectr. A rage would probably be on the other end. Amy was probably somewhere in the middle. So anger, bottom line is it’s about injustice.

[00:36:18] It’s about unfairness. We feel anger as an emotion when something is not  And we are given this kind of. Folks, super power in that moment, too. Right? What’s wrong. Nice to punish who is being unjust, forwards us,  Or protection, a certain level of protection as well. So that’s the big question is if anger is the emotion that comes up for you, what about this situation is wrong to you or is unfair or should not be that way.

[00:36:49] And that will actually open a very productive thought process to uncovering what is it that needs to be. Address. That’s just an example. So the pillar nber one is hopefully helping people make sense of the feelings that they have normalize them in a certain way, because it’s a man thing, not a male female thing.

[00:37:08] It’s a man thing. And can we use that and leverage it to our benefit rather than having it. Right, because we may understand what it’s trying to say. 

[00:37:19] Mike: [00:37:19] Let me, let me add on to that. And when you talk about the spectra of, of anger, cause this is kind of funny. I was just thinking about that. You said from slightly annoyed, which is my neighbor blasting their music at two in the morning, all the way to rage quit, which is basically call of duty Wars on getting hacked.

[00:37:31] So it’s, you know, for, for those of us out there that understand that. That one is absolutely hilarious, actually.I don’t know why people rage quit and do that kind of shit. It’s it just tells me that they’ve got personal issues. The other one is, is let’s be clear. That’s something that’s out of your control.

[00:37:48] You really can’t control what your neighbor does. So if you’re annoyed, why are you annoyed? Because it’s loud two in the morning and you’d like to get some sleep. So when, when you’re using that as an example, as, as far as that’s a very small degree, How would you use nber one to figure out what’s going on there.

[00:38:10] Timothy Yen: [00:38:10] But part of it is simply honoring and acknowledging that the feeling is there, that you’re you’re irritated. And you asked that deeper question, like, what is the irritation trying to tell me? Well, the, the, the justice, or what should be, is people go to sleep at two in the morning? That is what people do.

[00:38:30] And this bozo over here clearly does not follow those norms. And quite frankly, very inconsiderate. So he’s doing this thing that is preventing me from getting the rest. That I want, so Jeff, to be able to articulate that if it’s like 80% of the battle, like Steve, to be able to say it is huge because it gets super clear in your mind.

[00:38:53] Oh, that’s really what the irritation is about. 

[00:38:58] Mike: [00:38:58] That’s not, that does not mean you go and knock on the door next door and tell them to turn it down either. This is just acknowledging guys. This is only pillar nber one. This is not the total number one. 

[00:39:07] Timothy Yen: [00:39:07] This is just number one. Void. We haven’t talked about our options yet.

[00:39:14] you got options knock on their door, but you haven’t gone through the other three pillars to exactly where we’re not sure that’s what you want to do. That’s  Is that really what you want you to do? Cause he might have a shotgun that he just bought, right? Like it might not be worth it for what you’re trying to accomplish.

[00:39:31] Yeah. 

[00:39:32] Mike: [00:39:32] Not  to mention if he opens the door and he’s a UFC champion, you’re probably not going to get very far with them and it might’ve been a bad choice at that point. 

[00:39:39] Timothy Yen: [00:39:39] Crank up the music. And kick you out. Yeah. 

[00:39:41] Mike: [00:39:41] He’ll probably turn on the amplifier at that point, just to make sure and put the speaker at the wall, 

[00:39:47] Timothy Yen: [00:39:47] fight you 

[00:39:49] Mike: [00:39:49] just to continue the irritation and take the spectr a little higher.

[00:39:54] Timothy Yen: [00:39:54] Exactly. 

[00:39:56] Mike: [00:39:56] Okay. So that’s that’s pillar one is, is honoring and acknowledging. I’m assing,what would be let’s let’s skip, let’s go to pillar. Number three. What is that? 

[00:40:07] Timothy Yen: [00:40:07] So pillar nber three has to do with acknowledging the values of others. So understanding that when viewed. So, and this is what I kind of have jokingly say, if this book just makes people choose better in a selfish manner.

[00:40:24] Yeah. And they’re just more manipulative now and like really good at getting their own way. I would have failed as an author because we don’t need more selfish people like that. There’s plenty of those to go around hope is that in that decision making framework, people are being intentional about creating win-win scenarios as much as possible.

[00:40:46] If you’re able to do that, it means that you have to. Ask the questions, what is meaningful and important to people involved? I know what I want out of this exchange, but what’s important for the people that’s involved with. Use your,Raging neighbor example. Right? So it’s a pillar three in that case, it’s like, all 

[00:41:06] Let’s, let’s think about it for a second. Clearly he loves his heavy metal music and maybe it comes a life for him at two in the morning. Like that’s where it sounds good.  And so whatever the case may be, maybe some unresolved emotional issues that he can deal with in the daytime. So this is his way of like venting and, and so what would his value be?

[00:41:28] Well, his value is probably too. Get some of that frustration out of the system, be able to just kind of let loose, take a few shots, whatever he’s doing next door. So the value, if you had to distill it is yeah. He values his own space, his own time. Being able to listen to music the way that he wants when he wants to do it.

[00:41:50] And you want to at least have that on the table when you are making a decision like, Hey, that guy also has needs and. Technically he is in his own house. Like he’s not like breaking the law in, in some respects, he just make an inconsiderate neighbor, but he is like within his rights to kind of do whatever he’s doing on his own property.

[00:42:12] So is there a way that I can make a choice that will consider what will be in it for him too? So it’s just having that dialogue in your mind so that you can create a win-win scenario. As much as possible. 

[00:42:27] Mike: [00:42:27] Yeah. I can completely see that. It’s kind of funny. The first thing I think about when you talk about that,being more selfless in the situation as you’re going through this process, thinking about others and including for the win-win, et cetera, et cetera.

[00:42:41]whether you’re in business or in personal life, your, your, your willingness to allow room for somebody else to have something in it. Even though it’s really, you you’re trying to appease a selfless Mark that allows literally the rest of the world to thrive if you will.and I, I, I think there’s a lot to be said for that.

[00:43:11] Cause a lot of the choices that people make while somewhat consider it or appearing consider it. A lot of times still have the back end on it. Like, you know, this is still, I’m still tuned into w I F M do you remember that radio station? 

[00:43:28] Timothy Yen: [00:43:28] don’t tell me about it. 

[00:43:29] Mike: [00:43:29] What’s in it for me. Oh, that’s great. Yeah.

[00:43:33] I learned that one from an old friend of mine who was a counselor too. He was like, yeah, you’re still in. You’re still doing it. A Wii FM. Haven’t you heard that one before. And he wrote it down on a piece of paper and he handed it to me and I looked at it away, man. 

[00:43:44] Timothy Yen: [00:43:44] I am too then too. It it’s blaring.

[00:43:47] Mike: [00:43:47] That’s really bad. That’s horrible. You’re  But that’s bad. But I think, I think that really does speak to, and, and, and considering the, the. Condition our society is. And right now I think that pillar,I think that pillar would be huge if people used it, honestly, versus what you see a lot of going on right now.

[00:44:13]yeah, there’s there and that’s a whole nother podcast brother, but I think, I think that would be huge if, if people would just pick up on, on that one pillar. Choices will change interestingly enough, that the, the, the image that hit my head as you were talking about this is that, yeah, he’s doing heavy metal at two in the morning.

[00:44:34] I live in Vegas. We’re a 24/7 city. He might’ve just got home from work and he’s trying to wind down, you know, he could be dealing with some issues. You know, I pictured walking up and some big dude with a beard, comes out with tears in his eyes and he just needs a hug. You know, but that’s my thinking, everybody else is, you know, going to think differently.

[00:44:54] But that was the, that was the image that hit my head. What if he just needs a bloody hug and all of a sudden the music stops. 

[00:45:00] Timothy Yen: [00:45:00]  I feel better. And he gets to sleep. Yeah. 

[00:45:07] Mike: [00:45:07] So it’s, it’s I think, I think as, as people are listening to this and watching this. It would be the word is behoove. It would probably be really beneficial.

[00:45:18] It’s better way to describe it,in today’s English to really take a look at what it is that the other side. And I like the fact that you said cultural awareness and situational awareness and all of that, it, it, it, it has to be all of it because there are cultures that’s like, it’s not good to be angry.

[00:45:37] You shouldn’t be angry. There are cultures where it’s like, no, no, no. It’s okay. Just let it go.no, it’s not okay to just let it go. That’s called internalizing. And that could be a problem. Yes. It usually starts a lot of anxiety and depression. 

[00:45:52] Timothy Yen: [00:45:52] I, if I, if I’m on the right path here, you’re  You’re not wrong about that. 

[00:45:56] Mike: [00:45:56] We’re killing it, bro. This is really good. People can find this on Amazon.choose better is the title it was released on January 20th, January 26th by Timothy yen,author, psychologist, psychologist, or psychiatrist, or which is a psychologist. Because I know there is a difference.

[00:46:16]and are you going to be out like doing any virtual tours and speaking or anything like that? Anytime soon?

[00:46:24] Timothy Yen: [00:46:24] Well right now, I’m doing a lot of podcast interviews, like your wonderful show here, and just getting the word out about the book. Hopefully getting into as many hands as possible that can really benefit from this information.

[00:46:36] And I’m in the midst of, I think I mentioned earlier, I’m starting a consulting firm. Well, a few of my buddies and trying to make it go international, but using the framework actually as the foundation for the coaching. And so it’s, I have a few things in the works in terms of how I want to leverage this information and making it go big.

[00:46:59] Cool. 

[00:47:00] Mike: [00:47:00] And if anybody wants to follow you, where can they find you? I mean, obviously on, on what social platforms and where we’re and whatnot. 

[00:47:05] Timothy Yen: [00:47:05] So I’m pretty much on every social platform. If you want to get ahold of me individually, for, for some sort of collaboration or you have a question about anything I’d love to hear from you.

[00:47:15]you just go on my website@wwwdottimyen.com. That’s T I M Y E N. Dot com and that’s my professional website. You can send me a contact form. We’ll love to hear from you.started an Instagram page in relationship to the book called choose better consulting. And you can follow me on Instagram. I highlight different quotes in the book, but I give you the author.

[00:47:37] Mindset behind why. So what I said, I’m hoping that will add value to our audience. I want to start doing stories and, you know, just getting interfacing with,with people out there, like the listeners that you have and thing, 

[00:47:52] Mike: [00:47:52]you, you triggered a thought when you were, when you were talking just now.

[00:47:57]and I’ll have to try to remember that Tim yen.com choose better consulting on Instagram. All those things guys will be done in the, in the,comments. Of course, you’ve got questions. Make sure you ask here on the comments.he will have the link to this, this particular,broadcast. So if he sees one, he can answer it right away.

[00:48:15]what would be like your biggest piece of advice? Like. To anybody that’s that’s thinking about me. That’s listening to this. What’s what’s probably your best that you can give on.

[00:48:27] Timothy Yen: [00:48:27] Best I can give you is choose better is a state of mind, meaning that no matter what kind of experiences you’ve had, no matter if you have a terrible track record of bad choices, you can always choose better.

[00:48:44] If you’re only one decision away from pivoting, from whatever you may. Be facing whatever your experience is, being normal. Never give up, understand yourself, love yourself, be able to work through what matters to you. And you’re a one choice away from really chaptering the life that you want. That’s huge.

[00:49:07] That’s awesome. Want to thank you 

[00:49:09] Mike: [00:49:09] for joining us, Tim.and hanging out on Java chat. I appreciate you making the time. Definitely looking to grab a book for myself, just, just because I want to read the rest of the frameworks and I would suggest any of you that are watching or listening to make sure you get one too.

[00:49:24] You’re watching on YouTube. Make sure you hit the subscribe button. If you’re not ready, make sure you hit that bell too, because it tells you when we get awesome guests like this coming up, post up usually twice a week, Monday and Thursdays here, we’re listening to us on any one of the 13 platforms that we’re on.

[00:49:42] Make sure you download or subscribe there. You know, what’s your favorite place to hang out? We are on Spotify. If you want to listen to us on Spotify, catch us there as well. If you’re listening to us on our whole platform, anchor.fm, welcome to support us there every little bit helps.we always end the same, you know, we, we love the fact that you guys make the time to come into the city.

[00:50:03] To these. We love every single one of you. We do encourage you to keep going. Just like Tim just did and make sure that you stay up, stay safe, stay healthy. And live for Tim and myself, coffee with Mike chow for now.

 

For more information on Java chat visit www.java chat, podcast.com. You’ve been listening to coffee with Mike on Java chat tune in weekly to this podcast. For the next episode, you can also download or subscribe today on your favorite podcast platform. A production of Oasis media group, LLC. Located in Las Vegas, Nevada.

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