Dr. Lindsey Elmore – The Pharmacist Turned Entrepreneur

Dr. Lindsey Elmore – The Pharmacist Turned Entrepreneur Transcript

Intro: [00:00:00] Who wants coffee? Who wants a pot of coffee? I just made coffee. You want a cup of coffee? Sure, here you go! Who wants coffee? Anybody else want coffee? And now it’s time for the man with the caffeine, the new tropics for the brain. It’s @CoffeeWithMike, hang in, hang tight, grab your cup and let’s get this thing started.

[00:00:27] Mike: [00:00:27] Hey everybody. Welcome back to Java Chat. It’s @CoffeeWithMike here, and I get the pleasure of having another doctor. Joining us here on Java Chat to talk about some pretty interesting and important subjects is Dr. Lindsey Elmore, who is a pharmacist, natural wellness expert, vegan cook, yogi, podcast host and business strategy coach.

[00:00:49] Thanks for joining us, doctor. I really appreciate you having some time for us here today. 

[00:00:54] Dr. Lindsey Elmore: [00:00:54] Thanks so much for having me, Mike. I’m excited to be here. 

[00:00:57] Mike: [00:00:57] That’s good. Well, yeah, I am too. This was one that I’m very much looking forward to because this is one of my favorite subjects—health and wellness and staying alive.

[00:01:05]As we noted in the pre-show, when you asked, how am I doing? I said, I’m alive. It’s a good thing. I want to just give you guys a little bit of her background and then I’ll have her talk a little bit more about it. She’s originally from Birmingham, Alabama. She had obtained an undergraduate degree in chemistry from the University of Alabama, rollTide?

[00:01:23] Dr. Lindsey Elmore: [00:01:23] I went to the University of Alabama, Birmingham, so it’s different. Go blazers. I know, right. I lived in blaze hall and I was like, that’s not a place where teenagers and college kids need to be living, but I will always take a good roll tide. I have been roll tide since way back.

[00:01:46] Mike: [00:01:46] That’s just too funny. I didn’t even think about that. That took me a second to catch what you just said.

[00:01:52]Dr. Lindsey Elmore: [00:01:52] If you need to blaze, we have an entire hall for that. 

[00:01:54] Mike: [00:01:54] Oh my gosh. Oh my gosh. Chico state, thank you. Another one of those wonderful colleges. It’s a good college, guys. I’m not saying it was a bad college. It’s just, it’s well known for its extracurricular activities.

[00:02:06] She completed her first year, post-doctoral residency in pharmacy. And I’m going to want to get into that because I don’t think people understand pharmacy versus pharmaceuticals, I think there’s yeah…at Princeton in Birmingham, Alabama and her second year specialty residency in ambulatory care at New Hanover, in Wilmington, North Carolina. And that’s where you’re at now. North Carolina, right? 

[00:02:34] Dr. Lindsey Elmore: [00:02:34] Yeah. That’s where I live now. 

[00:02:38] Mike: [00:02:38] She is board certified in pharmacotherapy. Did I say that correctly? Pharmacotherapy. 

[00:02:42] Dr. Lindsey Elmore: [00:02:42] Yep. Rolls right off the tongue. 

[00:02:45] Mike: [00:02:45] I’ve had at least two cups of coffee so far. And she’s licensed to practice in three States. So which three states are those?

[00:02:52] Dr. Lindsey Elmore: [00:02:52] Alabama, California and North Carolina 

[00:02:55] Mike: [00:02:55] Cali., one of the toughest ones to get licensed in. Great. 

[00:02:58] Dr. Lindsey Elmore: [00:02:58] Yes. That’s where I went to school. And so I just decided I’d go ahead and do it and yeah.Once you get licensed to practice, you’ll never let that go. 

[00:03:08] Mike: [00:03:08] No, I would not, especially if you’re in Cali. Licensing in that state, for medical and for finances, is insane, but if you’re licensed there, you can pretty much ace anybody else’s throughout the country because ause they’re just the toughest. 

[00:03:21] Dr. Lindsey Elmore: [00:03:21] Well, thank you. 

[00:03:23] Mike: [00:03:23] No, no, I have complete appreciation, believe me. So tell me why, why did you go that route? What’s, what started that whole thing? I mean, everybody has this desire in college to become something great. And we ended up with degrees and then ended up doing other things, but you seem like you went right down the road where you wanted to go. What happened? 

[00:03:42] Dr. Lindsey Elmore: [00:03:42] Oh man. Okay. So when I was a little kid, I wanted to own a dance studio and I wanted to be an actress and I wanted to be a singer.  And my mom was like, yeah, no, get a real job. A real job is what you’re going to get. And thankfully my mom is a nurse. And because she was a single mom, I ended up going to work with her quite a lot. I love jobs where parents can take their children to work because she took me to work. I started filing charts when I was about 13, 14 years old.

[00:04:18] I started doing reception work at the doctor’s office and all of the things that gave me some background in science. And then I had a proclivity towards science, loved doing research projects in high school, started doing research projects to graduate. And then I decided, okay, well, I’m going to go to school and I’m going to get a degree in biology and, whoever decided that in order to get a degree in biology you have to basically memorize all of taxonomy, you forever made me not a biology major anymore.

[00:04:58] And so I remember I had this one moment. Where this, this woman and I were standing there and we’d been studying. We were about to go in and take a test and she’s like, elephants, those are pachyderms and they’re in this phylum. And—

[00:05:12] Mike: [00:05:12] Oh, I remember that. Oh my gosh. I went through that. 

[00:05:16] Dr. Lindsey Elmore: [00:05:16] Yes. So basically in my degree program, I was being asked to like memorize all of that. And I was just like, nope, not doing it. So I converted over to get a degree in chemistry and I decided I wanted to be a physician. And I started studying to take the Mcat, which is the entrance exam to medical school. And I was like, this sucks. I did not want to do this in any way, shape or form. I had been around healthcare enough to know that the hours are not worth the pay.

[00:05:54] And I also didn’t want to fall into that trap of being like the all-mighty physician. And so I decided not to become a physician. So then I was like, okay, well, I’ll get a PhD in chemistry because I’ve always wanted to have a doctorate. All of the women that I knew that had PhDs in chemistry were like do NOTget a PhD in chemistry.

[00:06:17] They were like, it is not your personality. You are not going to love it. Just do something else. 

[00:06:24] Mike: [00:06:24] I love how people try to judge you on what they think you want rather than just saying, “Hey, good luck.”

[00:06:31] Dr. Lindsey Elmore: [00:06:31] Yeah, I know. Well, you know, at some point you have to take a step back and go, okay, if the women that I know and work with who have PhDs in chemistry are like, “You’re going to hate it.” Then, you know, at some point you go, “Okay, maybe they’re right.”

[00:06:49] Maybe I won’t. And I also really hated calculus and you know, a lot of people love calculus, but I mean, like I was getting up into really senior level chemistry by the time that I got a degree in the subject matter. You know, as one does. And, it was getting to the point where my math just was not keeping up.

[00:07:14] And when I was doing theoretical chemistry and quantum chemistry and having to really put together everything that I learned from physics. And so I was like, well, crap guys. I don’t know. Life plan, somebody helped me. And one of the women who had a PhD in chemistry walked into the lab one day and said, “I know what you should do.”

[00:07:34] You should be a pharmacist. And my goal at the time was to leave Alabama, so I didn’t care how that happened. I just knew that I wanted to go. So I applied to two schools of pharmacy, both in California. Got into one of them and moved to San Francisco and started pursuing, becoming a farmer. 

[00:08:03] Mike: [00:08:03] Was that under UCSF or what was that under?

[00:08:06] Dr. Lindsey Elmore: [00:08:06] Yeah, UCSF. 

[00:08:07] Mike: [00:08:07] Great school for that. 

[00:08:08] Dr. Lindsey Elmore: [00:08:08] That was the number one school of pharmacy in the United States. The number five in the world. Yeah. 

[00:08:15] Mike: [00:08:15] They have a very, very good medical program. I actually have a friend that used to take his daughter to their research hospital for, for diabetes and stuff like that. So. Great people. Really very, very invested in people’s health. It’s really good. 

[00:08:28] Dr. Lindsey Elmore: [00:08:28] It was a great school. I loved it. San  Francisco is such an amazing town and place to live that I loved that piece of it, as well. And so, I became a pharmacist and I recognized during my pharmacy school that I tore my ACL and that was not fun at all. I’ve skied one time in my life and I tore my ACL.

[00:08:56] Oh, that was not, yeah, not going to go back to that. So, I tore my ACL. I ended up at the chiropractor’s office because my hips were so far out of the line. And kudos to California for having insurance that covers chiropractic care. 

[00:09:15] Mike: [00:09:15] Yep. Yep. They do. 

[00:09:16] Dr. Lindsey Elmore: [00:09:16] So I ended up in the chiropractor’s office and I tell the chiropractor, I’m like, “Listen, I haven’t slept in like a month, and I think I may die.” And she referred me to the acupuncturist and that was the first time in my life that I recognized. Wow. There’s a whole way of looking at health and wellness that I’ve never been taught. I’ve never been exposed to those. And I recognize that there are systems around the world that are based on actually keeping people healthy instead of only being interested in people when they’re sick. And so, that was a really interesting shift for me to recognize that, “Hey, there are things that we can do to actually stay well and not just be in this moment of illness.” 

[00:10:17] Mike: [00:10:17] And I’m, I’m hearing that you shifted from allopathic to functional. 

[00:10:23] Dr. Lindsey Elmore: [00:10:23] Yeah. I shifted from allopathic to functional medicine. I’m still on my functional medicine journey. I’m getting certified in functional medicine this fall, actually, if I can pass the coursework, which, it’s not easy. But, I started with supplements and understanding supplements, and I kind of became that wacky pharmacist that you could ask me anything about.

[00:10:48] Then, I know this sounds so ridiculously cliche, but my entire life changed when I discovered essential oils. There was something extraordinarily powerful about opening a bottle of essential oils, and I knew in an instant that my life was going to change.

[00:11:10] I bought every book I could find on the matter. I started researching, learning. And now, I have taken my understanding of what it is to be a pharmacist, my understanding of herbs, of supplements of vitamins, minerals, nutrients, along with essential oils, I’ve added on my yoga certification. I’m certified in some certain emotional release techniques that help people to clear out emotional blockages.

[00:11:43] And then this fall, I am pursuing my certificate in functional medicine. So yeah, that’s good. 

[00:11:51] Mike: [00:11:51] I should connect you with Dr. Dunstan. You two would have a wonderful conversation. 

[00:11:55] Dr. Lindsey Elmore: [00:11:55] Oh, with Kayron. She and I are tight, tight like dreadlocks. 

[00:11:59] Mike: [00:11:59] She’s been on Java Chat, and she gave advice on how to navigate the whole pandemic as it was unfolding. So this was, I think we had her back in March, I think? I have to go back and look.

[00:12:12] Dr. Lindsey Elmore: [00:12:12] Just like 16 years ago in March. 

[00:12:14] Mike: [00:12:14] Exactly. Yeah. It sure feels that way. Oh my gosh. But yeah, she’s phenomenal. So I’m glad I got her bestie. This is good. So you’ve come this far in this journey and obviously if you’re now doing all of thi, I’m hearing there’s probably an entrepreneurship journey happening at the same time that you’re going through all of these certifications and stuff. How’s that work and how is that working?

[00:12:39] Dr. Lindsey Elmore: [00:12:39] Well, I am a terrible employee. I tend to get fired a lot. So, that eventually you just come to a point where you’re like, okay, if I can’t fit somebody else’s mold, I might as well make a mold. 

[00:12:55] And so back in 2017, I was offered the opportunity to remain an employee of this corporation that I was working for where they said you can become a consultant for us and help us to promote our products, develop educational materials, et cetera. And I’d been around enough entrepreneurs to know that there was only one answer. And so I left. I know, which one will I do: be my own boss or continue working for someone else?

[00:13:32] I mean, listen, employee to employment has its perks. It has its perks, but to me, a greater perk is not having to tell someone when and where and why I want to work and on what projects. So I left work back in 2017 and I have been okay. 100%, solely, you know, just self-funded since then. I’ve been self employed since then. And in that time, I’ve published three books. 

[00:14:08] Mike: [00:14:08] Goodness. 

[00:14:10] Dr. Lindsey Elmore: [00:14:10] Yep. So I have a book about essential oils because I recognized that there was a lot of really cuckoo stuff about essential oils on the internet. And so, I wanted to find out what of this is true? What of this is not true? What of this actually has scientific rigor behind it? And I also recognize that there is this obstinance mom, allopathic, healthcare providers that they say they’re just nice smelling placebos, those essential oils. 

[00:14:51] And I was like, no, that’s absolutely unacceptable because if we do not take into account that there are actual chemical structures within essential oils that enter into our bodies, we don’t take into account like, okay, well, is there a drug interaction that I need to be aware of?

[00:15:13] What do I need to do to keep the patients safe? And so people would ask me questions like I’m on a blood pressure medicine. Can I use an essential oil? I am on birth control. Are there any essential oils that will make birth control inactive? And I realized that. I had to be an antidote to the obstinance that I’ve seen so many practitioners do, and it’s not just with essential oils. It’s with vitamin supplements, herbal supplements, homeopathy. For goodness sakes, acupuncture, energy medicine, all the things

[00:15:55]Mike: [00:15:55] It’s still one of the biggest disappointments to me when I learned just exactly how little nutritional education doctors get. 

[00:16:04] Dr. Lindsey Elmore: [00:16:04] Oh man. It’s basically none.

[00:16:06] Mike: [00:16:06] Well, yeah, I think it’s something like four hours or something like that. Or maybe eight hours now.

[00:16:10]Dr. Lindsey Elmore: [00:16:10] If you’re lucky. 

[00:16:12] Mike: [00:16:12] Yeah. Meanwhile, all the veterinarians get how much? 

[00:16:16] Dr. Lindsey Elmore: [00:16:16] Yeah, exactly. 

[00:16:17] Mike: [00:16:17] We feed our animals better than we feed ourselves 

[00:16:21] Dr. Lindsey Elmore: [00:16:21] 100%. I mean, if you think about it. I’m a pharmacist. I did not get taught in pharmacy school what nutrients are depleted by certain medications, so I have a patient who comes in who’s on a statin drug, which is a cholesterol lowering medication. They start to recognize that they have side effects where they have muscle aches, muscle weaknesses, and I have been taught, “Okay, well, the way to solve that is you transition them onto a water soluble statin versus a fat soluble statin, even though the water soluble statins are not as likely to get your cholesterol down.

[00:17:03] Mike: I was going to say, doesn’t that destroy the purpose of the state and in the first place? It’s supposed to be fat-soluble. 

[00:17:12] Dr. Lindsey Elmore: Well, they all hit the HMG-CoA reductase enzyme. But it is a matter of how long they stick around and to what degree that they can bring the cholesterol down. Fast forward a decade, and why am I just now hearing about the fact that stat and medications also completely destroy Co-Q10 and the lack of Co-Q10 can be playing into what is causing the muscle weaknesses.

[00:17:46] The muscle aches and the cramps that should be upfront knowledge for every pharmacist. Like if you’re going to put somebody on a medication, you need to look at what are the nutrients that may be depleted from that medication so that you can help the patient supplement with it. You know, I still have friends, I don’t know how many of you have done this, but if you haven’t done it yet, I very highly recommend it.

[00:18:10] This year was a year of a lot of fighting on social media and people have been at each other’s throats. And I got so mad at some of my friends that are physicians, that are pharmacists because it’s like, guys, it shouldn’t be news that vitamin C is helpful for your immune system, especially when you’re fighting an infection.

[00:18:36] And I had so many friends that were like, what does it matter? It’s stupid to supplement with vitamin C. Like don’t even do it. Like, why would you even try? They’re like, it’s one thing if you have an overt vitamin C deficiency and I’m like, Guys the risk and the potential return on taking some extra grams of vitamin C.

[00:18:57] The risk is low, but yeah, if you do come into contact with an infection, having that adequate store could be saving for you. And they’re just like, we don’t believe it. Why would we think that vitamin and mineral supplementation is something that we should do? And so I just uninstalled Facebook from my phone and it was great. It was like the greatest thing ever to just delete it. 

[00:19:29] Mike: [00:19:29] Just so you know, the flights are going on everywhere, even on TikTok. There are physicians there, you know, talking up about all of the different statistics and what it really means and what it doesn’t really mean. I think the fact that it’s been politicized as the real problem. 

[00:19:46] Dr. Lindsey Elmore: [00:19:46] Oh, it’s a major issue. Yeah. Another major problem. Is that the mainstream media—

[00:19:53] Mike: [00:19:53] Oh, they’re no help. 

[00:19:56] Dr. Lindsey Elmore: [00:19:56] Well, they’re bought, they’re paid. Yeah. Besides the fact that they’re bought, they’re just no help.

[00:20:01] Mike: [00:20:01] All they do is feed the fire. They throw gas on everything. Just ridiculous. I don’t even watch them anymore. 

[00:20:06] Dr. Lindsey Elmore: [00:20:06] Oh, I don’t either. I used to listen to about 12 minutes of the news every day, and then I just got to a point where I was like, you know what? A question I really like to ask myself when it comes to an argument, a debate or whatever: is this worth my fight or flight response?

[00:20:24] And there are so many times that I just go, “Nope, not worth my fight or flight response.” But, the media has been bought. How do I know that? Well, you follow the money trail. You know, the United States is one of only two developed countries that allows direct to consumer advertising for pharmaceutical drugs.

[00:20:47] Back in 1999, when that became legal, which the American medical association and multiple pharmacy association said, this is, I had. Back then the pharmaceutical industry spent $9 billion on ads. Yeah, that’s it. That’s it. Yeah. And that was in 1999. Imagine what they’re spending now. And you also look at major donors to media and it’s like, okay, well, yes, Bill and Melinda Gates foundation.

[00:21:26] If you’re going to give a hundred million dollars to CNN and to NPR, they’re going to listen to what you have to say. And they’re going to ensure that your financial interests are met. The same thing can be said about drug manufacturers. So when the current news cycle, when everyone is saying the same.

[00:21:54] Script. That’s not journalism. We don’t have journalism in the United States and it’s unfortunate, but, and I’m going to get some eggs thrown at me for this statement, but we all do. It’s not that big a deal. Even dr. Fowchee has gone on. And I remember, I remember when REM Deza vere, it’s a drug that Fowchee goes on the news and he’s like, this drug is going to save lives.

[00:22:19] This is so cutting edge. We’re so grateful. Got this to market. So fast. I called my friends. Is he reading the same studies that we’re reading? Because there are two published studies. Neither one of them reached statistical significance for saying that you had a decreased risk of death. Rim does severe.

[00:22:38] It’s a $35,000 drug that will shorten your duration of coronavirus symptoms by approximately a day. Like I’ll just stay in bed an extra day and keep my $35,000. But when he was on the news saying this stuff, I was ready to scream because here he is the media darling who has become the. The kind of beacon of fact.

[00:23:11] Fact doesn’t matter. there, there are no facts any more, especially when it comes to science. And if you think I’m lying, go and read Michael, David Michaels real yet book the triumph of doubt that goes through and talks about take, for example, the opioid crisis. Purdue pharma founded by the Sackler family.

[00:23:35] The Sackler had been in drug sales, drug marketing for more than 50 years. Arthur Sackler, kind of the patriarch of the family. He engineered the model of what was called detail men. They’re now called drug representatives. You know, the, the, the guy in the thousand dollar suit or the woman. That scrolls then with the free samples, Arthur Sackler came up with that model.

[00:24:03] And so when Purdue. Made Oxycontin. They go to the FDA and they tell the FDA that, Hey, we have a new opioid that has a dramatically reduced addiction, potential. The FDA didn’t even ask, like, does she have a study? I could look at to help us with that. They allowed Purdue to put that on the labels. Of Oxycontin.

[00:24:36] They also falsely claimed that the drug was released over the course of 12 hours. When in actuality, if you look at the pharmacokinetics studies, so pharmacokinetics is how fast. Drugs do things in your body. So how fast does it get into your bloodstream? How quickly does it peak and how fast does it get out?

[00:25:01] If you look at the pharmacokinetic studies, 40% of your Oxycontin dose is released within the first couple of weeks. 

[00:25:08] Mike: [00:25:08] Good Lord. 

[00:25:10] Dr. Lindsey Elmore: [00:25:10] No, I’m not kidding you. It’s right there. It’s in black and white. It’s been published and then the worst part is. For the majority of patients, the Oxycontin duration of action is somewhere between six to eight hours, not the 12 hours as it is marketed.

[00:25:29] This is a major problem because, because then have untreated pain for four to six hours problem, then the worst part about that is. That then you go into acute withdrawal. You actually start feeling the withdrawal from the medication, which causes you to have more addictive behaviors. You know, the new England journal of medicine published a five sentence letter about how opioids do not have the potential to be addictive. 

[00:26:09] Well, if you take a step back and you actually read what the investigator wrote, they looked. Only at patients that were given opioids post-surgery for a couple of days to hours. 

[00:26:25] Mike: [00:26:25] No, not people that were on it for awhile. Yeah. 

[00:26:28] Dr. Lindsey Elmore: [00:26:28] Not people that were on it for a while. And so, yeah. With that, you know, a commentary published in, in a new England journal of medicine can be skewed by the media to a study of paper, comprehensive review States that these things can happen. And this doc is saying that they’re not addictive, really. It’s a five sentence. It’s nothing more than a very insightful blog comment.

[00:27:01]Mike: [00:27:01] I was going to say it’s like, it sounds like a memo was sent and everybody takes the memo in law. Yes. That’s not a great way to run your business from one. 

[00:27:09] Dr. Lindsey Elmore: [00:27:09] Right. And unfortunately the Purdue pharma sent out more than 600 drug reps. It’s an unprecedented. Yeah, it’s the, it’s the word of 20, 20, an unprecedented number of drug reps to go to these physicians and to encourage them to prescribe high dose narcotics for all of their patients. And they created. Pseudo diagnoses where they would say, well, it’s pseudo addiction because they maintained that if true pain was present, that there was no way that there could be an addiction. So if someone who was truly in pain started to exhibit drug, seeking behaviors,

[00:27:58]Mike: [00:27:58] make any sense, how can a doctor actually subscribed to that? 

[00:28:02] Dr. Lindsey Elmore: [00:28:02] Oh honey, because they get paid like hundreds of thousands of dollars. 

[00:28:07] Mike: [00:28:07] That almost sounded like that. Comedian, honey.

[00:28:09]Dr. Lindsey Elmore: [00:28:09] Yeah. Oh honey, you look like model. 

[00:28:16] Mike: [00:28:16] You look like my doctor. You want to, you want to put guide dead. 

[00:28:20] Dr. Lindsey Elmore: [00:28:20] You prescribe this medication. We send your whole family to Hawaii. 

[00:28:25] And that was exactly how it did. And there were. No. And there still are no requirements. Do you know if your doctor has gotten paid when they hand you a subscriber? A prescription? 

[00:28:37] Mike: [00:28:37] Well, not for years, but me trying to tell anybody that I, you know, anybody listening to this they’re there. They’re probably going to be like, no, come on. How do you think they make their extra money? You guys is certainly not from the insurance billing. 

[00:28:48] Dr. Lindsey Elmore: [00:28:48] No, they’re not making money from insurance. 

[00:28:50] Mike: [00:28:50] They’re not making the damn mill yard. It takes forever to get paid. I know that one, having worked in the anti-aging realm. I know guys that are specialists at building. Docs are getting paid. You get bonuses. Nice little gifts. Thank you. Here’s a nice little thank you gift for you by the way. Take off to Hawaii for a week on us. 

[00:29:17] Dr. Lindsey Elmore: [00:29:17] Yeah, your whole family can come and by the way, while you’re there, if you’ll give this 30 minute long presentation, we’ll give you $75,000.

[00:29:25]Mike: [00:29:25] Same time you can write it off as a business trip. Not just the vacation. Look at that. Now I know this is, this is a, this is a thing that happens. I’ve known about this for a long time, but. I just haven’t had anybody come on and say it, which is, this is cool. So thank you.

[00:29:40]Dr. Lindsey Elmore: [00:29:40] I think pharmacists are we’re more likely than other healthcare professionals to call a spade a spade. 

[00:29:52] Mike: [00:29:52] Cause I have other friends that are pharmacists too. I honestly believe that pharmacists are the no bullshit people that’ll come out and go like, you know, but that’s not how that works. 

[00:30:03] Dr. Lindsey Elmore: [00:30:03] Yep. I agree with you. I understand. Because again, the rum desert veer is just one piece of data that me and all my pharmacist colleagues were like, Oh my God, they’re lying. Oh my God. They’ve got this drug that costs $30,000. That does nothing. It doesn’t do anything. And why are they telling people that? It doesn’t make sense.

[00:30:29]Mike: [00:30:29] It’s always been in the name of profit and that’s just a lot of, it’s a business. Let’s be honest about it. It is a business and the goal of a business is to make profit. And there are people that are shareholders in those companies that want to see the bottom line grow so that their portfolio will make a better retirement for them. Here’s a real, here’s a real kick in the pants or sharing this with one of my business partners yesterday. 

[00:30:52] years ago, I went to a seminar that’s held by a chiropractor who’s more of a Littmann than a practitioner. All he does is read all the journals. It’s all the papers, all the studies and all that kind of stuff. And he filed in some publication. I can’t remember which they had learned about insurance companies and their investment portfolios. 

[00:31:15] This is back in the 90s when tobacco wasn’t yet so unpopular and it was funny, he goes, they found out that insurance companies were the heaviest investors in tobacco companies, for obvious reasons, tobacco companies had great returns, stable long term. You never had to worry about getting a dividend or not. You knew you were getting one.

[00:31:35] Dr. Lindsey Elmore: [00:31:35] Oh yeah. 

[00:31:36] Mike: [00:31:36] His comment came across. That was so it basically shocked me and had me paying attention for the next two days after that because it was a three day. Um, he says, isn’t it interesting that the largest advocates of life are some of the largest investors of death. I literally went home that night, well to the hotel. I literally went to the hotel that night and I sat down and it was still bugging me. 

[00:32:06] And I’m like, these companies are out to make money. They are set up to not pay for claims. I mean, look at how much trouble they give regular physicians when it comes to the codes and not being right. We’re going to deny this running United at all of all of the things they throw up in front of people, companies that are the workman’s comp companies, they’re worse. And it’s just good business for them to deny and cause all kinds of crap. 

[00:32:31] And when we look at big pharma and where they’re at. The mere fact that an executive order went in recently, I’ve just seen the price of EpiPens went from something like three $50 to $10 or $270 to $10. And another one went from $350 to like $20. There’s going to be a lot of people mad at that whole executive order deal. Right, but I can tell you who’s not mad. 

[00:32:54] Dr. Lindsey Elmore: [00:32:54] The people whose lives are getting saved. 

[00:32:56] Mike: [00:32:56] People who don’t have the money to pay $350 for a damn pen. They’re getting cheaper because all we did was bring them home and cut out a whole bunch of the middle people that were just marketed up. 

[00:33:07] Dr. Lindsey Elmore: [00:33:07] Oh, well, you haven’t even dove into pharmacy benefits managers. 

[00:33:13] Mike: [00:33:13] Ooh, I’ve been there. I didn’t think we’d have to run down that one. We can do that another time.

[00:33:22] Dr. Lindsey Elmore: [00:33:22] Wait. People are going to negotiate my drug prices, but not be transparent about that? And there’s no way to find out this information? 

[00:33:30] Mike: [00:33:30] Some of that has been made public now, like, I believe a couple of the orders were hospitals have to publish. And I think pharmaceuticals are soon to be made to publish why the price is the way it is, which is great because the public should know these things. They need to know what they’re paying for and who they’re paying for. 

[00:33:48] Now, mind you, an opportunity to fill a niche is fine, but if you’re just filling it just to fill it, you’re not really helping anybody. Let’s be honest, an entrepreneur goes to solve a problem, not to create one. 

[00:33:58] Dr. Lindsey Elmore: [00:33:58] Amen to that. I love that. 

[00:34:00] Mike: [00:34:00] Yeah. So that’s, that’s part of the whole thing with what we do here. If you’re an entrepreneur, you’re looking to solve a problem. You’re looking to fill a niche, not looking to create one, that’s the wrong way to do it. And yet that’s what’s happened in a few industries, not just pharma. There’s a few industries that are like that. Supply chain logistics, things of that nature. There’s always somebody that wants to insert themselves in between. Cause there’s an opportunity to make a connection and I should get paid for that.

[00:34:23] I get that, but are you really solving a problem? What piece of software has not done that? Would a phone call to make an introduction and just say, “Hey, I’m blessed. It’s all good. I’m going to keep looking for another opportunity.” I think, I think people have tried to find, and this has been over the last few decades.

[00:34:40] I think people have been trying to find the easy way out by creating something that wasn’t really needed. And there’s a bunch that have been—I mean, what you’re doing now is definitely a need for it. The books that you wrote, dispelling some of the crap about essential oils and pulling the reel because there’s a lot, you’re right. There’s a ton.

[00:34:58]  When essential oils first came out, I remember the name of the company. It was probably Young Living. If I remember correctly, when they first came out long before they ever had their split and all the other crap and stuff like that. And that was all organizational crap. 

[00:35:14] I remember. That whole business, you know, the whole MLM thing and all that stuff. And I was like, they got such a great product and it focuses around a great, a great story. And it’s got, it’s got valid. I mean, we’re seeing results here. Okay. Allopaths, we’ll go fine. Whatever. But they’re healthy and they’re better. 

[00:35:33] Dr. Lindsey Elmore: [00:35:33] They’re going, they’re saying anecdotal. And it’s like, would you like to fund the study? Because I’d love to get you some published literature to make you feel better. Yeah. 

[00:35:43] Mike: [00:35:43] That, and the fact is like, look, do we really have five years to wait for this poor person to end up with scoliosis so damn bad? They can’t even stand up or shall we just give this shot and then figure out what happened?

[00:35:52] Dr. Lindsey Elmore: [00:35:52] Right, right.

[00:35:53]Mike: [00:35:53] it’s not poison. It’s not killing anybody. It’s certainly, I mean, it’s stuff that Native Americans have used, you know, things of that nature. 

[00:36:01] Dr. Lindsey Elmore: [00:36:01] Humans have been using essential oils dating back 5,000 years ago. Yeah. I mean, it’s here. It’s something that, you know, people are like, Oh, they don’t work. And I’m like, no, that’s not how evolution happens. If essential oils aren’t good, less then 2000 years ago, one of our ancestors would have grunted at the other one and nobody would have ever distilled any essential oils past that point. Because human evolution, and evolution in general, does not maintain that, which does not serve a purpose. You know, think about it. All of us want to not have it to sleep. Like we would have more hours in the day if we do not. 

[00:36:51] Mike: [00:36:51] Yeah, right. 

[00:36:52] Dr. Lindsey Elmore: [00:36:52] I know. It’s like, it’s like a badge of honor these days to say, like, I didn’t sleep, but four hours last night, it’s like, great. Well, your glymphatic are all plugged up and you should probably get eight hours tonight and every other night.

[00:37:04] And so we look at the way that we approach health. And we look at the things that we do that we inherently know are healthy. We all want to not sleep, but if sleep were not critically important for our health, we would have evolutionarily phased it out. We would not still be dedicating a third of our days, every single day to sleep if we did not need it.

[00:37:42] And so I think, I think now is a point where a lot of people can take back that power, that ownership, and just go listen, friend, you know, what are healthy relationships? What you eat, how much you exercise, the clean water that you have access to the way that you manage stress, all of that is inherently healthy and good for you. But yet we have so many voices out there telling us yes, to doubt that. And. You mentioned the tobacco industry, you know, the tobacco industry wrote the playbook. 

[00:38:23] Mike: [00:38:23] Oh, they did. 

[00:38:24] Dr. Lindsey Elmore: [00:38:24] Yeah, they did. They wrote the playbook. They said, doubt is our product. That is what we sell. And doubt is still a pervasive problem. Among all different types of them science, whether it’s exposure to toxins and chemicals in the workplace, whether it is the science of the NFL, if you’re employed by the NFL—Did you know, that’s a really good thing as a doc employed by the NFL to say football doesn’t cause concussions and traumatic brain injury talking about. Same thing with medications, there is doubt surrounding everything. Ask 10 care providers.

[00:39:09]Mike: [00:39:09] It’s interesting that you use the word doubt rather than skepticism, because to my understanding scientists, about being skeptical of what’s seen and really digging in and figuring out what’s actual. So a bunch of theories that need to be proven. To become laws only to be disproven later. 

[00:39:26] Dr. Lindsey Elmore: [00:39:26] Sowing is one thing, but that’s not sowing seeds. Yeah. 

[00:39:34] Mike: [00:39:34] Which is done daily by, by that. I mean, it’s, it’s insane. 

[00:39:38] Dr. Lindsey Elmore: [00:39:38] We’re currently living in the most doubtful media cycle that’s ever existed in the history of the world. And, and you just have to see through it.

[00:39:51] Mike: [00:39:51] No doubt. You’re you’re right. I wanna, I wanna take a break here for a second, cause we need to, you know, sponsors. Not that I don’t love them. I do, but we’re going to take a quick break. And then when we come back, I want to shift. I want to shift over to the entrepreneur side of things, because you also have a, you also have your own company, you’re running your own business, et cetera, et cetera. And I want to talk about how, how you’ve been doing. All right, cool. We’ll be back guys. And just about a, I think about 30 seconds or so, right. Give us a short, we’ll be right back.

[00:40:20] And we’re back here at Java Chat, hanging out with Dr. Elmore, talking a little bit about health, and we got into a tirade of things that we would probably sit here and talk for another hour and a half about.

[00:40:30] And we’ll probably have to do that again sometime real soon, that had to do with pharmaceuticals and big business and things of that nature. That said she has another part of her story that I want her to share, which is her journey in entrepreneurship and how she’s been building her business. You’re a female-owned company, correct?

[00:40:46] Dr. Lindsey Elmore: [00:40:46] Yes. 

[00:40:47] Mike: [00:40:47] Okay. So how many people do you have working with you right now? 

[00:40:52] Dr. Lindsey Elmore: [00:40:52] Oh my goodness. Okay. So I have my business manager, social media manager, operations and shipping manager. And then I have an accountant, a lawyer, and then I have a media agency that I work with where I have a, for lack of a better word, a chief marketing officer, graphic designer, videographer, photographer, and then web development team. That is everybody that I have working with me. 

[00:41:26] Mike: [00:41:26] And then as that has come together? Obviously you had to learn over time. You can’t do it all yourself. So what were some of the challenges that you had to face in building this team?

[00:41:36]Dr. Lindsey Elmore: [00:41:36] Trusting your instincts is always really important. So I came to my first hire because I was on social media nonstop and was answering every single message, every single thing. And I got, and when I published my first book, because I got a lot of questions.

[00:42:01] So then when I published my first book, somebody wrote in, asked a question that was black and white answered in my book. And so I wrote her back and I was like, yeah, here’s a one sentence answer. But if you want more information, it’s in this chapter of this book, here’s a link where you can go purchase it.

[00:42:23] And she wrote me back and was just nasty and was like, I’m unfollowing you. How dare you, send me an ad, how dare you this? 

[00:42:37] Dr. Lindsey Elmore: [00:42:37] I know the whole thing. And, so I sat down on the floor and basically started shaking and I was like, did they think that my education was free? Did they think it was free for me to know the answer to that question? Yeah. It shook me to my core so much how nasty she was that I took three days off of social media and I decided right then that I would hire a social media manager because I didn’t have to deal with this anymore. And so that was my first, my first hire.

[00:43:12] Then I’ve made a couple of really bad hires in my day. Be really slow to hire people and be really quick to fire them. If you see, it’s not working out, just cut, take the bandaid off. It’s no fun. Nobody likes having to let somebody go because you know, your life, their livelihood is in your hands, but if it’s not working, it’s not working and just call a spade, a spade. This is not working and go forward from there.

[00:43:43] I’ve worked with some agencies that I’ve allowed to hang on and just month after month, I’m like, Hey guys. Where are the deliverables, where’s this and just nothing’s happening. We’re going to work on that. Okay. We’re done, we’re out. I had a very interesting interaction with an accountant one time who texted me talking to me about all manner of things, not related to accountancy over the course of a month. And I was like, this, this guy must like me. Like what is going on? 

[00:44:19] Mike: [00:44:19] It was one of those. 

[00:44:19] Dr. Lindsey Elmore: [00:44:19] So he had to go, you know, I’m like, no, you’re not my money manager. If you’re interested in me, unless you want to be transparent and say these things. 

[00:44:30] Mike: [00:44:30] So, was he? 

[00:44:31] Dr. Lindsey Elmore: [00:44:31] I mean, no, he didn’t, his transparency was. Oh, yeah. Sorry. I forgot to mention that I’m married. And so I was on fire, walking up into that place. I had on my power suit, my 5 in. tall heels and I was like, you’re getting fired, but today we’re going to have a conversation about appropriate workplace behavior all day.

[00:44:57] So it’s been a matter of time. I have been lucky to have one really key collaborator that I’ve had for a long time that at least I have somebody else to bounce ideas off of, to think through things. And then I also am very aware that I don’t want to hire people. That I don’t need, because you don’t want redundancy in your system. So you want the minimum viable team to make things happen and the minimum viable product to sell. 

[00:45:35] Mike: [00:45:35] Agreed. That makes a lot of sense. I was going to ask you, what do you think is the number one thing that most entrepreneurs ought to do, but you just said it, honestly, in my opinion, that’s really the truth.

[00:45:46] I mean, although I have, like, I run with interns, and while I have six of them, I really don’t need any more. If I had more, it would be a lot of waiting around to figure out what to do. Because the way I run with them is I give them something to do and I give them free license to go ahead and produce.

[00:46:05] Dr. Lindsey Elmore: [00:46:05] Yeah, well, there’s one other thing that you said earlier that I want to echo in that is if you want to be an entrepreneur, the number one thing you do is find a problem that you know, how to solve and then tell everybody how you solve that problem. That’s what you do. That’s the only reason people buy anything is because they have a problem that they want solved.

[00:46:30] So for me, I recognize that there wasn’t someone who had brilliant ideas and about essential oils. So I started teaching people about essential oils and herbs and supplements. I then realized that there weren’t a lot of, I hate the word “business coach.” Everybody today is a business coach, but I realized that there weren’t people that helped people specifically in health and wellness to craft their business narrative. And so I aimed to fill that. I recognized that there weren’t dietary cleanses on the market that had delicious food. 

[00:47:14] Mike: [00:47:14] No, most of them are cardboard box based. 

[00:47:16] Dr. Lindsey Elmore: [00:47:16] Oh my gosh. Yes. Or they’re like, you know, buy the $600 worth of shakes that are prefab dusting. And so I recognize that. And that’s why I started my food blog and wrote my vegan cookbook.I was like, there’s no reason that healthy food—

[00:47:34] Mike: [00:47:34] You want to hear something really funny. And here’s something really funny. I actually know some of the manufacturers that manufacture that stuff and I’ve talked to a couple of them, like, you know, what you’re producing is like horrible tasting. And they’re like, yeah. I’m like, why are you doing it says, Ben Franklin is just Ben. Franklin is just as good from them as anybody else, brother. And if they want us to work, we’ll work, they’re not as vested in the process of what it is that they’re creating. They’re more vested in the process of doing it and producing.

[00:48:00] And I get that, I mean, that’s their business. Their niches. We produce what you want us to produce. But on the back end of it, I’m like, dude, really this stuff is nasty.

[00:48:11] Mike: [00:48:11] This is the PR. The first drink they’re holding their nose. And they’re like, yep. It’s kind of actually funny, but you know, This is what we do.

[00:48:20] Dr. Lindsey Elmore: [00:48:20] It’s not fun. You know, I also, as an entrepreneur, I have a couple of rules. I will not waste your time and I will not waste your money. You know, I will show up. I aim to always be on time. If I’m even like 30 seconds late, you know, you’re wasting other people’s time and I will not waste people’s money.

[00:48:44] And so like right now, I’ve just started a second session of a Brand Strategies Lab, which is my health and wellness business coaching program. And I have people that come back or that are interested, but they say, Oh, it’s, you know, I just can’t afford it. I, this I, that. And I just said, look, if you do it and you get to the end of it and you say it wasn’t worth the money, then let’s talk because that’s great feedback for me to get the program that I have is not worth what the investment that I made.

[00:49:18] I want to make sure that every person who engages with me doesn’t have their time wasted and doesn’t have their money wasted. And that has a lot to do with how I build trust among my audience. I think it is challenging when your product that you sell is knowledge. That’s a big barrier that I face.

[00:49:40] Um, especially, you know, pharmacists’ knowledge becomes so ingrained in us that we forget that everyone doesn’t know it. 

[00:49:50] Mike: [00:49:50] And in marketing. 

[00:49:52] Dr. Lindsey Elmore: [00:49:52] Right. Yeah. You forget that people don’t understand that you need free lead-ins and you need to actually craft some trust in your audience before you ask them to buy anything shocking.

[00:50:06] And so it becomes so ingrained in us that some people are like, how do I sell? How do I charge for my cognitive based services? And it’s like, do you have the years of knowledge you’re willing to do what some people are unwilling to do, which is show up continually and learn more information?

[00:50:33] Mike: [00:50:33] I’ve always gotten a kick out of it. You know, like my business partners are specialists in different things than I am. I’ve always been in marketing brand strategy, brand management, rotate, which is basically reputation management now. And all these fancy names and business principles, when it comes to building a business based on marketing, the four pillars and all of that stuff.

[00:50:52] And they come to me with new information on the technical world, the digital and all of this stuff. And I’m like, wow, I really, I come back and I’m like, I really don’t know anything. And yet at the same time, I’ll go out and I’ll talk with somebody. And like, I’ve never heard that before. I’m like, are you kidding?

[00:51:06] This is one on one stuff. What are you talking about? I have to step back every once in a while and go, hold on a minute there. They probably don’t because they weren’t taught this. They didn’t go to school for it. They have a baby. They don’t know how to raise it. So, you know, like with anybody, I always try to give them here’s what you can do first, before you ever try anything else, go grab this stuff, put it into a system.

[00:51:31] They start asking about systems. Then a different conversation start was like, go put it into your system. Use it, see if it helps. If it helps. Awesome. You don’t need me. If it doesn’t help or you need some help setting it up, we can talk. If you need help with actually creating one, we can talk. But until then, just go use this for now.

[00:51:48] Okay. I can tell you, I’ve probably avoided about 15 or 20 problem children, which is exactly what it would have become simply because I gave them, you know, here’s some info to do this, go do this first. And I think for any, when are, if you, if you, if you’re looking at starting something. There’s a lot of learning involved. You’ve just talked about learning different things when it comes to hiring and firing when it comes to running a system. When it comes to coaching businesses, it’s not always, blatantly apparent until the failure teaches a lesson. And, I’m sure you’ve faced a few of those as well. 

[00:52:24]Dr. Lindsey Elmore: [00:52:24] Um, yeah, just a few failures.

[00:52:30] Mike: [00:52:30] Share one of the worst and one of the best. 

[00:52:34] Dr. Lindsey Elmore: [00:52:34] Oh, okay. So. Oh, you know, failures ultimately I think really come down to not trusting your instinct. So two, two biggest failures. One I’ll share the name of the company with because this is somebody that you might be able to work with.

[00:52:48] And I could not discourage you from working with this company and the other one I won’t, but one of the companies that I worked with was a PR agency. And they just were overpriced. Didn’t work, no deliverables. And I just let that go because you know, some people that could sell ice to an Eskimo kind of vibes.

[00:53:16] That was what they were doing. They were selling ice to an Eskimo and I wasn’t taking a step back and going like, wait a minute, I don’t need ice. And so that was a, that was a major problem. And then another company, I got wounded a little bit. So we were having problems with our email marketing service and it was causing problems and frustration and dah, dah, dah.

[00:53:40] So we start looking into other email service providers and email service providers can be everything from free to tens of thousands of them a year.

[00:53:54]Mike: [00:53:54] Yep. And get what you need.

[00:53:56]Dr. Lindsey Elmore: [00:53:56] Getting on what you need. And we made the choice to go with a company called Marquetto and it was a terrible, terrible, terrible experience for us.

[00:54:05] And I realized that I told them, no, I said, I just don’t think this is the right fit for us. It’s extraordinarily expensive for what we’re getting. It was a huge step up from what I’m currently paying as far as, you know, a couple hundred bucks a month for email marketing up to now paying thousands of dollars a month for it.

[00:54:28] And they were like, Hey, we’ve got these field passes. We’ll send you to a Yankees game. You’ll get to meet like a ton of people from our team, free seats, gift cards. 

[00:54:40] Mike: [00:54:40] Pust paid for a membership in the box. Thank you.

[00:54:43] Dr. Lindsey Elmore: [00:54:43] Exactly. Yeah. And so I did it and then you get those feelings of guilt. So even when I went back to them again and was like, listen, I’ve really thought about it. I just don’t think it’s right for me. They come back and they’re like, well, we think it’s the right thing for you. And so we’re gonna just, we’re going to yet again, put this into term. So I said, yes, and we went through two months of training and we’re nowhere closer to being able to send out a first email.

[00:55:13] Mike: [00:55:13] Right. 

[00:55:13] Dr. Lindsey Elmore: [00:55:13] And we all took a step back and even my web development team and they. You know how web developers are, they’re talking over your head all day late.

[00:55:22]Mike: [00:55:22] That’s both my partners. 

[00:55:25] Dr. Lindsey Elmore: [00:55:25] And even they were like, this is the most unnecessarily complicated software that we’ve ever seen in our lives. And so I go back to the company and I say, Hey guys, I’m really not satisfied with this. This is not making me happy. and they basically said we don’t care. What do you not care about? 

[00:55:46] Mike: [00:55:46] Yeah. That’s, that’s a no go. That’s an absolute, no go. Yeah. 

[00:55:50] Dr. Lindsey Elmore: [00:55:50] That’s another thing too. That’s part of my ethics. I’m not going to waste your time. I’m not going to waste your money. If you come to me ever and say, Lindsey, I paid you $30 for this and I didn’t think I hated it. Like it really, really made me unhappy. And you could give me detailed reasons. I won’t hesitate to give you back your $30. You know, I would rather have 50 fiercely loyal and happy customers than 500 customers where one is really, really upset that wants to spend the time crafting those 1 star Google reviews about the company. You know, make your customers happy; solve their problems and find out ways that you can solve more problems for that.

[00:56:44] Mike: [00:56:44] I get such a kick out of some of the gurus that I see online, seeing what they offer and solutions. And it’s funny because I, myself and one of our partners, know a lot of those guys. I worked for one who I won’t mention who it is, but, who’s very well known as being, a small business expert.

[00:57:03] And I hate to say it, but nope, that’s why I’m just not, so I’m not there. I mean, we left on, on amicable terms, but. That’s like what you say you’re selling and what you’re actually giving are, I’m sorry. They’re two different things. They’re not what you’re promising. 

[00:57:23] Dr. Lindsey Elmore: [00:57:23] We get pitches sometimes for people to be on the podcast and you’ll sometimes read people’s bios and you’re like, wow, this sounds amazing. And then you make it to their website. And you’re like, wait, did they do what they say they do? And you get better at being able to see through it. 

[00:57:52] Mike: [00:57:52] Yeah, for sure, but it takes some time to be able to see. Like anything else, it’s practice. And that’s, that’s just really the whole point. I think that’s probably one of the big things that a lot of people forget is that. Forgive the analogy, but it’s a practice. Just like, just like medicine. Medicine’s a practice.

[00:58:09]Dr. Lindsey Elmore: [00:58:09] It’s a practice like medicine, like pharmacy, like yoga, like anything, it takes you, nobody is born knowing how to run a company effectively with their own mission and vision and ethics and all of the things.

[00:58:27] Mike: [00:58:27] What a, what a, what a wonderfully confusing, fun run that is, isn’t it? 

[00:58:30] Dr. Lindsey Elmore: [00:58:30] Yes. Oh my gosh. If you’re willing to strike that balance between knowing that you’ve stumbled upon something that you can solve so many people’s problems and really make effective change that you want to see in the world. If you can balance that with that. Oh my God. We may fail tomorrow and you’re cut out to be an entrepreneur. You know, you really are. Like I said, employment has benefits, but so does running your own show.

[00:59:16]Mike: [00:59:16] Well, and in some cases, and I remember hearing these terms, I’m not sure if it was from Seth Godin or not, but there are different people there that you’re looking for both internally and externally. You know, for the people that can work in an operation, we would call them, you know, potential intrepreneurs. People that don’t necessarily want to work for themselves, but have the creativity and the force drive to be able to drive a company for the entrepreneur that created it. 

[00:59:41] The entrepreneur is psychologically unemployable. That’s like yourself, myself. And it’s like, neither is neither is better than the other. They’re both needed. I think, I think a lot of people—I used to have, I have a former friend. I’ll say it that way. Who used to think that I used to look down on people that had a job because the way I spoke about it, it was like, yeah, it’s not for me. But what they missed about that? Like I said, it’s not for me. I didn’t say it’s not for anything. Right. I don’t believe in it for me because I know that I will have a hard time being under somebody else at the level of intelligence that I bring to a table. I threatened a lot of people and, and I just forgive the terminology; I’m just a dumb island boy. I just happen to know a lot of shit.

[01:00:22] Yeah, I drink coffee and know things. That’s what I’ve, I’ve literally been told that. And it’s, it’s like, I’m not there to threaten anybody’s position. I don’t care. You know, if you want to be the boss, be the boss. That’s cool. If you need support, I can support you. You want me to run things? I can run things. So it’s not a problem. I don’t care. And that’s where a lot of people have a problem with me being inside of a corporate structure.They think, I don’t care, period. It’s like, no, that’s not what I said. I don’t care about the position. 

[01:00:50] I care more of the fact that everything works. How do we make it work? And if you have an attitude about your position, you’re more worried about your title in the new team. You’ve already got problems coming. 

[01:01:01] Dr. Lindsey Elmore: [01:01:01] Yes, absolutely. And, and I think that even within organizations, you can recognize the people who have it within them to potentially run their own companies. It’s like the people that are constantly trying to improve processes and make things better versus the people who are true employees, they’re always aiming for what is the next title change? What is the next raise that I can get versus the person who just says, I’m going to continually show up and try to add really significant value and continually make things more effective? And I think that that’s really an important distinction.

[01:01:53]Mike: [01:01:53] That’s the difference between an employee and an entrepreneur. The entrepreneur is ethical about their improvements. 

[01:01:57] Dr. Lindsey Elmore: [01:01:57] Yes. They’re not just after the next. 

[01:02:01] Mike: [01:02:01] Now let me clarify something though, because that was a blanket statement. Not everybody’s like that, but for what I have seen in my experiences working inside and outside. Generally speaking, the one who’s the employee mentality who just wants a job and a good salary and wants to go and live the life “is out there to make themselves look good.” I unfortunately have seen this in the banking industry. It’s kind of rampant there. I’ve seen it in certain other corporate strategy structures, as well. And, and even in hospitality, that’s another place. 

[01:02:34] And the hard part is, is the guys above them. They can’t see it because they’re not there a lot of times they’re off in their ivory tower and they just, they just have no connection really to it. So when they have their one-on-ones, it never comes up because no one’s, they’re not able to see it. The intrepreneurs though. I don’t want to give a shit.

[01:02:51] They’re like, whatever, let’s just keep it. Let’s you know why don’t we try doing it this way? Will this work? And if it gets shot down. Okay. What about this shut down? Okay. Well, let me think about it in the meantime, just keep going. There’s a huge difference. 

[01:03:03] And, and again, those are the entrepreneurs. Well, then I gotta leave. Cause I see a problem here and I can’t deal and that’s okay too. You know, I think a lot of people mistake the understanding that you’re, you’re going to be one or the other and that’s okay. It’s not wrong. It is where you are at and where you choose to be. It’s okay. No one’s faulting you for it and no one’s down in here for it.

[01:03:27] Dr. Lindsey Elmore: [01:03:27] And you may find that throughout your career, you are sometimes an entrepreneur and sometimes an intrepreneur. Sometimes you have to change things up. I mean, I am not opposed to the idea of somebody coming up and I mean, whew, I don’t know where this came from, but I’m gonna cast this out into the universe, give somebody.

[01:03:53] If, if a Dean of a school of pharmacy, or if the American Pharmacists Association showed up at my door and they said, “Wow, we get it now. Natural health and wellness is critically important and we need somebody to spearhead. How do we implement this in our curriculum in nationwide pharmacy curricula?”

[01:04:17] I would really strongly consider something like that. You know, if, if somebody came to me and said, Lindsey, there’s a brand new governmental agency that wants to insure ethics and pharmaceutical marketing. I would be there, you know, totally. There would be times that I would say, okay, yes, I’m going to take this job.

[01:04:39] Mike: [01:04:39] It’s just, by the way, if you ever get that job and you need a marketing advisor, please call me. I’m very happy to serve on that board. Now we’re going to do that. It’s a done deal. 

[01:04:48] Dr. Lindsey Elmore: [01:04:48] Yes. So I think that it is really, really important that you leave yourself open. Leave yourself open and just do the best you can at every job that is given to you, whether that’s running your own company or being an employee.

[01:05:09] Mike: [01:05:09] Yeah. Yeah, no, I get it. That makes absolute sense. I hate having to do this, especially when this thing’s running so well we’re well past 40 minutes. 

[01:05:18] Dr. Lindsey Elmore: [01:05:18] No. When you said like 40 minutes, I was like, well it’s been a little bit further. 

[01:05:24] Mike: [01:05:24] I’ve been, I’ve been trying to figure out how to do this nicely, but there’s just no way. We have to, we have to wrap this up, so, okay. So we’re looking at you’re in a good place right now, and obviously there’s still more growth to be had, but from all the successes and everything that you’ve learned. What’s one of the biggest challenges, if not the biggest challenge you’re facing right now in your business?

[01:05:47] Dr. Lindsey Elmore: [01:05:47] I think one of the biggest things that I made a mistake when I first started was. I didn’t, as my preacher said growing up, I didn’t keep the main thing, the main thing. So when you do that, you know, I had a really good thing going about, I had a very lucrative role teaching people about essential oils, but I did it for so long. I mastered it. It became a little bit boring for me. 

[01:06:16] And so then it was like, well, I want to do this vegan cooking, and I want to do this yoga and I want to do so. It was all of my personal passions coming out. That then diluted the messaging. And so the past six months we’ve really been working hard to figure out what’s the overarching message? So if you’re starting out, remember to keep the main thing, the main thing. Don’t allow your personal passions to overtake your business. 

[01:06:53] Mike: [01:06:53] You can always have side notes is what I like to call them. There’s nothing wrong with having side notes, but it goes back to like Gary Keller’s book, the one thing that’s it just, it makes absolute sense.

[01:07:06] What does that one thing say with that one thing? It’s okay. You can have little side notes and side stories. That’s fine. But you still got that one thing. And you just stick to it. I totally agree with you that that makes absolute sense. We gotta have you back. There’s way more to talk about. I mean, there’s, there’s the whole other side of medicine.

[01:07:22] There’s still the whole pharmacist conversation I want to have with you. I’ll keep in touch with so we can make sure that we get you back soon as possible. 

[01:07:33] Dr. Lindsey Elmore: [01:07:33] Thank you so much. 

[01:07:34] Mike: [01:07:34] And thanks for coming and sharing your experience. Thanks for coming and sharing some, some knowledge dropping knowledge.

[01:07:40] Dr. Lindsey Elmore: [01:07:40] It was a joy. 

[01:07:42] Mike: [01:07:42] It was a blast. We need it again. Where can people find you? 

[01:07:45] Dr. Lindsey Elmore: [01:07:45] Head to www.lindseyelmore.com. You can also find me on Instagram and Facebook @Lindsey Elmore as well. On Pinterest @ Dr. Lindsey Elmore. So that’s D R L I N D S E Y E L M O R E. And if you head to lindseyelmore.com/free-tools, there’s about 10 different free downloadables everything from a gratitude journal to five steps to becoming an entrepreneur.

[01:08:14] Mike: [01:08:14] I got a 21 day that we’re going to do. So I’m going to, I’m going to borrow yours if you don’t mind. 

[01:08:19] Dr. Lindsey Elmore: [01:08:19] Please do I think I’m on day 47 of keeping my gratitude journal.

[01:08:25] Mike: [01:08:25] Yeah, we got a, we got a 21 day that we got from the Deepak Chopra foundation. There’s a great one and a journal is definitely necessary. So, I’ll, I’ll definitely look into that. Any place else? 

[01:08:37] Dr. Lindsey Elmore: [01:08:37] That’s the best place to go. 

[01:08:39] Mike: [01:08:39] Cool. Yes. So all of those links you guys will be done in the comments. Obviously, if you have questions, you know, feel free to ask them down below in the comments, I’ll get them over to Doc and she’ll answer them as soon as she’s able. Don’t forget to subscribe down there on the bottom. If you’re watching on YouTube, click the bell! The bell tell us when the next one’s on. 

[01:08:58] And then, if you’re listening on Anchor, if you’re listening on any of the other podcasting platforms, make sure you hit subscribe or download. If you’re listening on anchor.fm, feel free to, you know, show us a little love and show us a little support. Every little donation helps keep this little, this little thing running. 

[01:09:14] We are growing. We’re getting some amazing guests as you can see right over there, dropping knowledge bombs and giving us the real on what’s going on. There’s a whole bunch more that we’re definitely gonna want to talk about. And we’re just gonna, we’re just gonna have to invite her back. I think everybody would agree with that.

[01:09:31] So y’all know how we loved to, to end this. I’ll thank Dr. Elmore for joining us once more, and then it’s always the same, you guys, you know we love you. That never changes. And we want you guys to stay up, stay safe and stay healthy and live. That’s the biggest one. Make sure you live okay from both of us to all of you chat for now.

[01:10:00] Outro: [01:10:00] For more information on Java Chat, visit www.JavaChatPodcast.com. You’ve been listening to @CoffeeWithMike on Java Chat. Tune in weekly to this podcast. For the next episode, you can also download or subscribe today on your favorite podcast platform. 

[01:03:02] A production of Oasis media group, LLC. Located in Las Vegas, Nevada. Copyright 2019, all rights reserved.

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