Damon Burton Part 2- A Catch-Up Conversation

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Interview with Damon Burton Part II 10_29_2020

[00:00:27]  Mike:  Welcome back to Java chat. Everybody. I just wanted to do a little preclude a prelude, something like that to the podcast today, because this is like where Damon Burton and I get back together and just kind of hang out and we chat about a few things. Some of it about life in general, because he was kind enough to send me a It’s kind enough to send me a gift.

[00:00:55] And because he had heard, my mother was not feeling well. He sent a, something to cheer me up. I didn’t really did. And then we got to talking again about business and. He shares a lot of good stories. And I want you guys to listen to these stories because they teach a lot of great lessons and then we go back and forth and guys, this one’s, this one’s like, really, this is even less formal than normal.

[00:01:20] So wow. That’s right. This is less formal than normal. So sit back, relax and enjoy two good guys. Two good friends, just sitting back and really just chopping it up. All right. And thanks for stopping by and listening to 

[00:01:36] Damon Burton: [00:01:36] Java chat. Ding dong 

[00:01:39] Mike: [00:01:39] is the man. 

[00:01:41] Damon Burton: [00:01:41] what’s up, dude? What’s up? We’re rocking and rolling.

[00:01:47] We’re recording already. 

[00:01:48] Mike: [00:01:48] Oh, that’s that’s normal. It’s the moment I turn it on. I just let it record. Dude spoon, spoon, spoon, full of comfort, huh? 

[00:01:59] Damon Burton: [00:01:59] Yeah, yeah.

[00:02:00] Mike: [00:02:00] How I haven’t opened all of it yet, but I started digging in. Thank you. Thank you very, very much. That is super fucking cool.

[00:02:06] Damon Burton: [00:02:06]  I sent, I ordered her awhile ago and so.I don’t know how long it takes, depending on where you’re at.

[00:02:15] Cause 

[00:02:16] Mike: [00:02:16] there showed up yesterday. 

[00:02:17] Damon Burton: [00:02:17] Did it. Okay, cool. Cause the, you just said today and I was like, Oh, Oh man, I hope he gets it. 

[00:02:23] Mike: [00:02:23] You got it. It was funny because I get notifications. we have an Amazon hub, so I get notifications by email. your package has arrived and I’m like, 

[00:02:33] Damon Burton: [00:02:33] I didn’t want this. This is spam.

[00:02:36] Mike: [00:02:36] Well, no, some every once in a while, like my, my mom who lives with me, not right now, obviously, but she’ll get like these books sent in a postal service and we just keep sending them back. Cause it’s like, we don’t need books 

[00:02:50] Damon Burton: [00:02:50] like who sends them? 

[00:02:51] Mike: [00:02:51]  it’s.either guideposts sends them or. It’s a program that they have, they send the book out.

[00:02:58] If you read the book and then they send you an invoice to pay for the book. And it’s like, but I didn’t know. 

[00:03:02] Damon Burton: [00:03:02] It’s Columbia house. 

[00:03:04] Mike: [00:03:04] No, no, no. It’s, it’s it’s Skype, although Colbia hostile sound quite familiar anyway. It’s.but yeah, so, so when that set up, I asked everybody, has you order anything with no money or nothing?

[00:03:18] And I said, well, it’s addressed to me. So that makes sense. Then of course, yesterday I was. I have two podcasts recordings, and I had an appointment on the other side of town. By the time I got home, it was like six o’clock. So I guess I better go get this. I don’t know what it is. And open up the door opens and it’s one of the lower, bigger doors I’m like, Oh fuck.

[00:03:35] What did I don’t? I didn’t order anything. And then I see the name on it and I’m like,

[00:03:42] Some somebody is fucking around. I bring it, bring it home and I’m like, I’m trying to get settled in the house. And my son’s looking at the box. I’m like, get a knife, cut it up and see what it is. Just get a knife. Cause, cause.I’m like, you’re standing by the box. I got to get shit done. Go ahead.

[00:03:57] Cut it open up. He opens it up. He goes, it’s a spoon.

[00:04:04] Damon Burton: [00:04:04] I’m like, it’s just getting weirder by 

[00:04:07] Mike: [00:04:07] the box. Opens up. Is that it? He’s like, it’s a big box for a spoon. He goes, well, there’s some other stuff in here too. Like some recipes I’m like, okay, so this is a foodie thing. Obviously somebody knows I’m a foodie. He goes, Oh, here here’s a card. I’m like fucking Damon right on.

[00:04:22] Damon Burton: [00:04:22]  Yeah, there it is. 

[00:04:24] Mike: [00:04:24] I’m like the mystery has been solved. It’s now magic. 

[00:04:27] Damon Burton: [00:04:27] Well, well, yeah, so I, I sent that and when I saw what was going on with your mom and then unrelated to that when we were booking this and I’m like, I need to send a new ship for your birthday. I did send you something. So, so I don’t know why they got when you’re getting at, but I was hoping you would get it today.

[00:04:47] Mike: [00:04:47] I’ll take it as both a birthday on a console, a comfort comforting gift. I appreciate it. By the way that guitar in the back. There’s a copy of it here. 

[00:04:59] Mike: [00:04:59] Mines is a 

[00:05:00] Damon Burton: [00:05:00] Washburn. I have.  I have no idea what it is. So did I need to tell you the story about, 

[00:05:06] Mike: [00:05:06] I believe you did, but tell me again. 

[00:05:08] Damon Burton: [00:05:08] So when COVID hit and.

[00:05:13] Like that first, like 10 days, two weeks when everyone was just like, what’s, what’s going to happen. And I was like, Hmm. I should probably get that guitar now in case, like in case like things slowed down and everybody’s stills, all the freaking guitars off Amazon actually finally finally pick up learning guitar in case there’s a downturn.

[00:05:36] That’s where it sat since I got it because downturn never happened on my end. 

[00:05:39] Mike: [00:05:39] No. And in fact, I would think that in your end, if it got well from your post, it’s gotten busier. and that’s a lot of what I want to talk about because I’ve been following what you’ve been posting as far as the business side of stuff.

[00:05:50] I mean, we’ll talk about some other things too, but I’ve been watching and there’s, there’s been a lot of stuff going on. We have a couple of projects on our end, same story. it’s it’s balls to the walls for some reason, even in the midst of all the craziness, at least for our stuff. It is both our businesses are, are service-based online anyway.

[00:06:10] Well, in any case, I’m not going to do the normal intro. We’re already here. We’re talking. It’s all good. I’m probably just going to feed it in with a, with a commentary upfront going.  Daymond came on and we just started talking 

[00:06:21] Damon Burton: [00:06:21] well, here, here. All right. Well, there, there’s your intro right there, 

[00:06:24] Mike: [00:06:24] Right, exactly where we’re in the chat. 

[00:06:28] Damon Burton: [00:06:28] Hey, Hey everybody, everybody. I I don’t know when this is going to air, but as of the day we’re recording, I Michael something. Michael, do  what I owe you? 

[00:06:38] Mike: [00:06:38] You owe me something? Well, usually I don’t, I don’t know. Other than the song, maybe for happy birthday, 

[00:06:44] Damon Burton: [00:06:44] dude, you nailed it.

[00:06:46] Happy birthday.

[00:06:53] Mike: [00:06:53] I was going to start doing the mug swing. Unfortunately, there is no whiskey in it, so it’s not Irish coffee. I can’t really do 

[00:07:00] Damon Burton: [00:07:00] this one way that night. 

[00:07:01] Mike: [00:07:01] Yeah, 

[00:07:02] Damon Burton: [00:07:02] I’ll do that later. 

[00:07:03] Mike: [00:07:03] I appreciate it, brother. I really do.  Never would have thought that my 49th birthday would be spent thinking about my mother, however it is what it is by the way she is.

[00:07:13] She is slowly getting better. I think two days ago she was actually able to lift her right arm. Previous to that. Her right arm was almost immobilized. that started she’s more active. She is talking a bit more I know they’re putting her through a lot of A lot of rehab, like three hours a day of rehab.

[00:07:34] So she, it must be tired. 

[00:07:36] Damon Burton: [00:07:36]  It’s, what’s what kind of sounds like the silver lining. If there is any in this, is, is that like, she’s making that much progress that fast dude. That’s good. 

[00:07:46] Mike: [00:07:46] It’s what’s funny is I used to be a personal trainer years ago. And when I would get people that come out from surgeries, there was always the rehab section.

[00:07:57] And then there was the personal training section. There’s this, there was this huge gap between the two. That was called reconditioning that no one had ever actually addressed on either side. So I learned this gap by experience of having a couple of clients and watching mom go through her minuscule changes on the rehab side.

[00:08:17]  when she comes home, I’m fairly sure I’m going to be right in that spot. And it’s it’s, it’s still, it’s still minuscule steps. they’re a little more than usual. And obviously at her age, I’m not going to be expecting like huge jps, but I’m fairly confident there’s going to be a lot of, a lot more care needed.

[00:08:38].and we’re adjusting that as we go, but in any case,  Can you tell me a little bit more about the spoonful comfort? Cause I haven’t dug into it yet. It just, it looks like a foodie thing and it looks like. I might be eating really well for the next couple.

[00:08:50] Damon Burton: [00:08:50]  Okay. Sorry.  cause I sent him a gift.just talking about his mom, I sent him like a sympathy gift, like, Hey thinking of 

[00:09:02] And so it’s fruitful and comforting. I actually could probably give you two stories. So one is the way I found out about them is. Gosh, I don’t know, 10 years ago they were a client of mine and just blew them up, man. They were on shark tank and also we just, we just crushed it. And so they’ve gone on to do really big things and, and it’s like such a unique gift that I just still send it.

[00:09:24] And 

[00:09:25] Mike: [00:09:25] I mean, first off you don’t open a box and just all of a sudden there’s a spoon there. You just don’t 

[00:09:30] Damon Burton: [00:09:30] it’s a ladle, bro. 

[00:09:32] Mike: [00:09:32] Okay. It’s a ladle. That’s the truth. It is a ladle and a very pretty one, by the way. I it’s just like, but that one’s going to be hanging on the wall, but that’s, 

[00:09:40] Damon Burton: [00:09:40] that’s the thing like I’ve talked to people about spoonful come here and they’re like, what is it?

[00:09:44] I’m like it’s soup. And you’re like soup.

[00:09:51] Well, that one.  Now we got to go even back further. So the woman that started it, her name is Marty Weimer and The she, her, her mom had had passed away from cancer. And so when she was going through like the the sunset phase she just wanted to like help her mom out and then was like, what’s, what’s something that I can do that shows I care.

[00:10:13] And, and so she was like doing the soup thing and, and then, and so that kinda spawned, it was like his legacy for her mom. And so you talk about. Like where they really found success is when they shifted their messaging from. Selling soup to selling an occasion.  Right. And so now it’s more sentimental.

[00:10:35] And, but the thing about it, the reason why I say like, Oh, chicken noodle soup is because like, I don’t blame you. That’s what it sounds like but it’s not, it’s like an unboxing experience. Their branding is so amazing. And you like, you just open it and like, like at the end, when you’re done opening it, you soup isn’t even on your mind, you’re just like, that was rad.

[00:10:55] Mike: [00:10:55] So let me, let me give you the, the initial thoughts when I first opened the box. Cause obviously comma got into it first, but he didn’t move anything and he’s like, there’s the school, the ladle, he didn’t know any better. there’s a spoon. And I was like, okay, cool. And then. There is a flap covering the other side of the box that said that says love by the spoonful, which I thought was absolutely amazing.

[00:11:24] cause honestly soups were kind of intended to be that love by the spoonful. if you really do a good soup. You can taste the love. You can do that. being a foodie, I can say this, but then you get under it. And now there’s other stuff inside there that just the bright color of yellow it’s very welcoming.

[00:11:42] It’s very openings, very warm, and then you get the card and then you get there’s a couple other promotional things, but you start seeing the box itself and what’s in the box. And again, I haven’t gone all the way down. I’m excited to do this. But you can just tell that this is something that was put together really to get you to, to, to open this and this at the same time as you’re going down.

[00:12:02]  So I can totally get why you wouldn’t be focused on the soup. You’d be just more like, wow, this is a hell of an experience. 

[00:12:07] Damon Burton: [00:12:07]   And, and, and to add on to what you said as you go through and. The, as you’ve removed those layers, everything is just like perfectly symmetrical or proportion. So it’s like oddly satisfying it’s alignment of everything.

[00:12:23] Mike: [00:12:23] Well, let, let’s put it this way. The OCD in me is really enjoying the unboxing.

[00:12:25] Damon Burton: [00:12:25] I got to tell you one other funny story. So I sent, I sent a client of mine. This was probably eight years ago, and now he’s afraid. Now he’s a friend of mine. I sent him spoonful and I sent it to him like, like for like a Christmas.

[00:12:44] Thank you.  Thanks for your business. And, and I sent it like three, four or five days before Christmas because I figured people are gonna check out of the office at some point. And I didn’t hear anything from him. Like two weeks later went by, it’s like now creeping up on the second week of January and I, and I messaged him and I was like, Hey, how are things going?

[00:13:05] By the way, did you get that thing I sent you? Because tell them what it was. I wanted him to get. Right. And he’s like, Oh my, Oh my God, dude. That was you. I gotta tell you the funniest story. So what had happened is left like the week before. So it just, the. The delivery guy just like chucked it down the stairs.

[00:13:24] And so, so it cracked and, and they were gone for two weeks. And so then it just rotted. So he’s like, dude, for like two weeks, we’re like, what is that smell? And we couldn’t figure it out. And finally, we went and checked out the. We went through the back door and that’s why turned creeping through, I guess.

[00:13:45]  So it was just like creep and then like leeching into the office. This term’s funk. So now it’s this funny story that we talk about. 

[00:13:54] Mike: [00:13:54] Oh my gosh. That is funny though. I mean, can you just imagine that coming back to that I was going. The hell is that? Was that it was, it was, it was locked. Wasn’t it?

[00:14:06] Did you leave the refrigerator open again? 

[00:14:09] Damon Burton: [00:14:09] He, he said there was something that, like, I can’t remember what the tenant in the suite next to him was, but he’s like every once in a while there was like a smell. And like for a reason, we, we thought it was that and was just way worse for some reason, but it just didn’t go away.

[00:14:25] Mike: [00:14:25] yes, the wonderful neighbors, the ones that make noise at weird hours of the night, too many memes and shit around that. so you, you posted something recently that really got my attention and I think it was yesterday. and it had to do with, by the way guys, if, if you guys. If you guys haven’t checked out demon yet, what the hell are you waiting for?

[00:14:52] he posts, well, first off you post, not just the, the joys, but you also post the pains of being an entrepreneur being in business on LinkedIn, if you’re not following him following. and one of the things that you shared, I think it was yesterday was the fact that you had kind of a trade out to clients that, that they had to move on and then bringing on two new clients.

[00:15:17] I found it interesting, by the way, your energy is just pull in whatever it’s like, it gets replaced, but at the same time you’re effective. So that just makes it even better. But what you were talking about, the loss of the two I wanted to talk a little bit more about that because I get the feeling, there was a little more in emotions than what you posted, because it is a hard thing to lose a client and to face that.

[00:15:42] maybe it’s no longer a fit or maybe it just didn’t work, or maybe there was something you couldn’t do that somebody else could, which, which we face we’re, we’re not the SEO experts of the world. We can do it, but we’re not you. we’re better on them the AI stuff and it becomes, it becomes a slight frustration and, and yet building the relationships correctly, you still end up with a friend.

[00:16:06] you can, and you can always talk with them and they may come back to you and pick your brain at certain points in time, just to ask and see. And I’ve always done that with everybody. You get a marketing question, feel free to ping me. Information’s free? but can you, can you tell us a little bit more about that?

[00:16:23] I mean, how did that all go down and what, where is it now? 

[00:16:28] Damon Burton: [00:16:28] It’s actually a really cool story. So first of all, it was two days ago because yesterday it wasn’t yesterday. Yesterday I posted my gangster rap alb cover. They just say, I’m 

[00:16:37] Mike: [00:16:37] sorry. You’re right. Yes, I did. I’m going to reshare that now that you reminded me.

[00:16:44] Damon Burton: [00:16:44] So, so two days ago. Yeah, I posted it. so the, the clients so I get kind of like Michael started on apply. I, I have a. Genuine interest in relationships with my clients and a lot of marketing agencies. And I’m sure you can agree with this. it’s like turn and burn, right? It’s like high vole.

[00:17:09] Good sales 

[00:17:10] Mike: [00:17:10] guys. I keep trying to I’ve always advocated for get yourself five to 10 solids, leave the rest alone. Cause you’re, you’re going to do what you just said. Turn and burn. Where’s the relationship. There’s nothing left. 

[00:17:26] Damon Burton: [00:17:26] Yeah, well, it’s it’s, as I touched on in the post I still have our first dozen clients from 14 years 

[00:17:37] Mike: [00:17:37] ago and that’s, and that’s the best dude.

[00:17:41] Damon Burton: [00:17:41] Most people in our industry can’t even say 14 months ago. No. So anyways, so I had these two clients cancel our, our council rates super low. And when, when they do cancel. By far, the majority of the time it’s unrelated to performance. And that was the circstance. 

[00:17:59] Mike: [00:17:59] Look, guys, let me be clear about something here with Damon.

[00:18:02] If you’re not following him online, he’s not pping. Okay. Let me, let me make this real clear is efficacy. As far as his skills and his business and his team, they don’t screw around. They do really good work. So when he says they have a very low turn rate is because they do what they say they’re going to do and they get shit done.

[00:18:20] If somebody happens to leave it ain’t because of performance. There’s some other extenuating circstances going on. So this is, this is just me back in Damien as the man knows his shit. So if you’re not following him, go follow him. All right, please continue. 

[00:18:34] Damon Burton: [00:18:34] Yeah, I appreciate that. if I feel like we’re into a campaign and we’re not delivering, then, then all off doubt, I’ll say so.

[00:18:41] So with these two clients, one of ’em was in Like the way I position it in the post, because I didn’t want to say it was, they, they work in kind of like swag. They do branded apparel and they, they do like really high vole orders. So it’s not just the 

[00:19:00] Mike: [00:19:00] it’s enterprise level stuff. 

[00:19:01] Damon Burton: [00:19:01]  So they had with, with COVID they had with businesses kind of launching their dollar there.

[00:19:10].swag is gonna kind of hit the jp block. And so they, they it’s been really interesting though with them because they exploded in may and then it was,  And then it was like, they’re kind of hit and miss, so I don’t necessarily think there’s anything going on. I think it’s just. Where it is, but I talked to him about it.

[00:19:32] Cause like I said, we’re, we’re, I, I build relationships. So we just chatted about it and he’s like, yeah, it’s really weird. we’re up here, down here, up here, down here. And then when I looked at the analytics, their traffic is up almost doubled. Well, I shared it in the post or traffic. I saw the children exposure was up almost double, but maybe, 

[00:19:49] Mike: [00:19:49] maybe we’re still in the middle of lockdown.

[00:19:51] Right? 

[00:19:52] Damon Burton: [00:19:52] A lot of this, this guy’s overseas.  So he is but most of his clients are in the States, but because he, I was, 

[00:20:00] Mike: [00:20:00] I was just going to say, because if I remember around that time, I had heard some people talking about alternative alternative measures to, to either engage new clients or appreciation of existing clients.

[00:20:17] Mike: [00:20:17] It almost makes sense that his business kind of bone there to me since that was the last, 

[00:20:22] Damon Burton: [00:20:22] I mean, his doesn’t quite so much client. Cause you think kind of appreciation, that’s going to be like 20 to a hundred units. something like that. He, he works with like, Mountain Dew they’re going to own, they’re going to buy the full brand.

[00:20:36]  So, so those huge monster orders, like I think people are just like, they’re kind of repivoting or they’re on pause, so I’m not worried and he’s not worried either, but he’s like, I’ve talked to others in my industry and they’re kind of saying the same thing. So. I’m not out, but let’s just take a pause.

[00:20:53] Right. So so I’m not worried. And like I said, in the post, when people 50%, plus my clients that leave come back either because it’s like this where they’re like, Hey, I just need to hang on for a minute. Or a lot of times what happens is I’ve had this one guy leave and come back three times and every time, and I’ve had a couple other people even come back and they go and they’re like, and then, and sometimes it’s good because they’re like, Holy shit.

[00:21:14] Like now I get. Like what you were saying, Damon, wasn’t pping me up. Like the, what he tells me is legit. And now I got pped up by the other guys and I see it. So they come back and usually it’s just, they come back once and then they get it. But this, this guy’s funny. He hasn’t the last time he came out, he’s still with us.

[00:21:32] But the last time he came back was like three years ago. So I think he gets out. I 

[00:21:36] Mike: [00:21:36] hope so. Jesus, if he hasn’t figured it out the third time, it’s supposed to be the 

[00:21:39] Damon Burton: [00:21:39] charm, but yeah, but the interesting, the interesting part of the story is. I think it’s unfolding and I’m super excited to, to share whatever comes up down the road because the second client I have a really.

[00:21:53] Just personal curiosity and vested interest in seeing their success. They, they are in a kid’s apparel industry and they kind of made their own product. Well, they did make their own product. And so it’s, it’s in, it’s like they’re creating their own market, but it’s like, it’s really related to an existing market.

[00:22:13] So it’s kind of kind hard. Explain it without. Calling out who they are, but so they’re fighting against like billion dollar brands for a position that doesn’t exist. Like until people see their product, they don’t know that product exists. And so we have to educate them and tackle the audience of parallel products, something really close and be like, Hey, did.there’s this other thing?

[00:22:38] And so they have They’ve they’ve made massive progress and they’re fighting billion, billion, billion dollar brands. But One thing I’m super, I pride myself on is just like transparency. And I’m like, this is going to take a long time. It’s not your usual year 

[00:22:55] Mike: [00:22:55] of last year. We’re facing, we’re facing the same thing with, with the spirits company.

[00:22:59] because of all of the, for one you got. Companies like Diageo and stuff like that, pushing the big brands. And then you’ve got all these new ones. We we’ve just we’re 

[00:23:10] Damon Burton: [00:23:10] talking every day, there’s a new one you’re fighting against 

[00:23:12] Mike: [00:23:12] and they got these beautiful websites. They all suck, but they’re all, they’ve got these beautiful websites that have no SEO on them.

[00:23:18]  And they’re out there trying to try to pp a brand half the time. They don’t have their story straight. We’re redoing the brand story for the spirits company, just so we can educate people on what real is. So I get it. I mean, What 

[00:23:38] Damon Burton: [00:23:38] Because there’s gotta be more to this. So, so I hit the guy up and I said, look, or I messaged him. And I said, yeah, man. yeah, if we’re going to take, if we’re going to stop, that’s fine. But. And I just did the same thing. I just told you. I’m like, I really have an interest in seeing this succeed. Can we just talk?

[00:23:53] And he writes back excitedly. Yeah, I figured he’d said, I wasn’t saying no, but he came back super excited. He’s like, yeah, of course, man. And so I talked with him yesterday and I said, all right, what’s going on? Is it, you are spending more money on paid ads because it’s more instant gratification because our product is a very visual thing because you need to educate the audience that sure.

[00:24:13] That it exists. I said, is it that, or is it that. SEO takes time and he’s like, it’s a little bit of both. And I know that SEO takes time. We knew that going into it. And I said, here’s the deal. Like I get that. You haven’t got your return yet. And that was, those expectations were set. But I also understand that like, It’s exciting and sexy to get that return.

[00:24:34] But as we both know, you’re fighting billion dollar brands and you have to educate an audience that doesn’t make a product exists. And so I sent him the screenshot of his progress and I said, I know you’ve already seen this, but I want to kind of put this in context. I go, look, you’re showing up here, here, here, and here and here.

[00:24:47] They’re not on page one yet, but you’re on the freaking radar dude. Like you’re someone page two and then like a crap ton on page. And like, you’re not going to get traffic from those, but me seeing like how close you are. That’s money in the bank because you are fighting billion dollar brands. Like that’s a gold mine.

[00:25:05] And so I told them, this is why I’m excited to see where it goes in the future. Cause it reminds me of how I started my agency with which maybe that’s the next story. But what I did is I said, what, tell me what you want to do. I said, I will do this for free for a year. If you incentivize me. And I said, let’s agree on goals.

[00:25:25] I will take the loss if we don’t make it, you’re out. Nothing. If we make it, make it worth my time, because you’re going to kill it when we get to page one. And so he’s like, dude, I love it. Give me a couple of days and I’ll figure out where we can meet middle. 

[00:25:38] Mike: [00:25:38] Yeah, we, we, same story on our side with the spirits company.

[00:25:41] Cause we, I have a vested interest in the company as, because I’ve been with them for two years, having the new. LLC. literally one of the partners has put in all his time on building the site and getting the SEO and stuff in place. and he literally, it was, it was a deal between him externally of the agency.

[00:26:01] Cause I said I can’t, I can’t go back and charge conflict of interest for one said, once you go cut a deal with them and his deal was, look, just cover me for this much. And I’m in for the long haul, we’ll get this thing selling, we’ll get this thing moving. And on the back end, the CEO, like don’t you worry?

[00:26:16] I got you. And we’re watching their sales starting to finally move. It’s not, not huge yet, but it’s moving. It’s moving.  

[00:26:23] Mike: [00:26:23] So yeah, I think sometimes a lot of the new digital agency owners don’t know this part of entrepreneurship like we do, which is if I can see something like w I’m still I’m still vested in a tech company I had a vested interest in them.

[00:26:42] When I first came in, I was like, okay, look, here’s what I’ll do for you. Here’s what I, here’s what I’m looking for. And he goes, well, how many shares do you want? I’m like, what’s, what’s good. So we have our deal companies still rolling. I’m not active with them anymore, but I saw it as look, this is a nine figure deal.

[00:26:59] No one saw COVID coming. So it kind of affects it because they’re in the meeting industry, but I’m sure there’ll be able to pivot with some other, some other things that they’ve been improving, even, even in the midst of they’ve been improving. It makes sense sometimes to be vested in some way, either as a shareholder or take care of me on the back end.

[00:27:18]  As long as there’s some kind of. True interest in gut feeling because I’ve also seen people do that wrong. 

[00:27:26] Damon Burton: [00:27:26] That’s what I was just going to say that I was just going to say, this is the first time I’ve considered a rev share in a long time, because  It’s not that I’m against them, but the problem you run into is you got too many chefs in the kitchen.

[00:27:39] Like I can do all of my share and somebody else is going to screw it up for me. And so that’s why I’m usually like, no. Well, first of all, W when we make it a success, you’re going to be paying me a lot more money anyway. So you should probably just take a step back the second of all you’re, I have no idea who’s going to impact our incentive.

[00:28:01] And so I usually say no, but in this case the potential upside is just massive that I’m willing to roll the dice on this one. 

[00:28:09] Mike: [00:28:09] Well, you’re all, you’re also in a, in a much more it’s obvious you’re in a much more. Personal relationship with the business owner who makes the choices, which basically, and there’s two things on that.

[00:28:19] Because when I, when I talked with the tech company guy I knew he had some challenges of his own because he’s a sales guy and all of a sudden he’s a CEO and it’s like, okay, you got some skills to learn. But even in the midst of all the challenges, I was like, this deal. If he can get over his ego, this deal is going to make money.

[00:28:36] And when it finally hits and they get the right team, this thing is going to explode. And last year they had their first profitable year and they’re only in year three.  That’s a good sign. Not still waiting for him to step out. He’s still looking for a good CEO, but he’s picked up about. Three other people for the board that are not originators of the, of the company they weren’t in the company.

[00:28:59] At first, they came from other industries 

[00:29:01] Damon Burton: [00:29:01] so I can bring the outside perspective 

[00:29:02] Mike: [00:29:02] and they’re, and they’re all solid people. So it’s growing the way it ought to grow. I’m thinking 2021 opens up everything again, that. We’ll have, we’ll have more of the right people in place and eventually he will step up and this thing will go nuts.

[00:29:18] That’s that’s the thing that you have to be able to tell it. I think a lot of it deals with emotional intelligence, obviously, but you have a personal relationship with this person. You already know whether or not the ego is going to get in the way you already know whether or not other people are going to get in the way.

[00:29:31] and sometimes you don’t have to come out of left field. But when you have that kind of trust, I think it’s easier for us to be able to say, let’s give it 90 days. Let’s see where we’re at, or let’s give it six months or let’s give it a year, ? Cause we know we know where we can produce and where we can hit in, in your case.

[00:29:50] I think, I think this was the one yesterday, the fast traffic that you posted. Hmm. Why let’s not, while that’s not the end game, there’s some stuff you can do that can get you some good. Some good traffic right out the gate. If  what you’re doing. 

[00:30:04] Damon Burton: [00:30:04]  Yeah, go ahead. 

[00:30:08] Mike: [00:30:08] I was going to say, just to wrap that up, if you are thinking of doing a rev share, do not do it just because you see the potential, they need to see the potential, their team needs to see the potential and there needs to be a hole that you can fill.

[00:30:24] If you can fill that, that space, that void, that they’re, that they’re actually lacking and make sure there’s one there. Cause if you try to force a wedge in there, it’s going to be a problem. Then you have an absolute chance at contributing to success, being a part of the success and benefiting from the success.

[00:30:41] Does that make sense? 

[00:30:42] Damon Burton: [00:30:42] You got a good point that I didn’t even really think about. He’s a good dude.  So there’s certainly some trust there. and, and I didn’t even think about it just because he’s a good dude, so that’s a good point. but yeah, and then he’s he’s also the type that is.

[00:31:01] morally driven. So it’s not like 

[00:31:05] Damon Burton: [00:31:05]  Cause you have these other, I’ve talked about other podcasts. About how years ago I had a VC company say, Hey, let’s let’s roll you into this other company and we’re going to pay you third, third cash, third stock third now. And I was like, Nope, because it does, because 

[00:31:20] Mike: [00:31:20] we all know how that one rolls.

[00:31:22] Damon Burton: [00:31:22] It’s like your third cash is rolling. I guarantee the note that they’re there, the stock and the note. Like goodbye, because the stock they’re going to move you into a shelf corporation and.it’s going to go defunct. And then, because it goes defunct, there goes your note. So here’s, here’s a note, 

[00:31:42] Mike: [00:31:42] here’s a note for bankruptcy.

[00:31:43] Here you go. That’s that’s sometimes how that falls out. Trust me, I’ve run down that one too. 

[00:31:49] Damon Burton: [00:31:49] It was crazy how some business owners are just intended. Like that’s their game plan coming back over, squeeze them out. 

[00:31:55] Mike: [00:31:55] Well, that’s, that’s VC and that’s equity firms and we can get into that in a second. Let’s take a quick break for 30 seconds guys.

[00:32:00] We’ll be right back.


 I’m sitting here with Damon Burton of SEL national and we’re back here, Java chat, hanging out with Damon Burton. We’re just talking. We were literally on the break. We were just talking about how this is like both of our, ironically, both of our only appointments for the day. He’s not got any other podcast schedules.

[00:32:18] I’ve got no other appointments, no meetings, nothing else 

[00:32:20] Damon Burton: [00:32:20] doesn’t mean I’m not busy. 

[00:32:22] Mike: [00:32:22] It’s like we both, we both got a ton of shit to do, and we’re going to be playing catch up after we finished. 

[00:32:28] Damon Burton: [00:32:28] it was funny is how we connected. So you and I have chatted before on your Java chat, but then your like assistant was doing outreach and found my profile wherever.

[00:32:38] And she’s seeing an email not knowing you and I not only have talked before, but are kind of friends. And so she’s like, Hey. Check out Michael’s podcast and you’d be a great fit. And so I write the whole system back and I’m like, you have fabulous tastes and guests, but we’ve already talked before Mike. I was like, fuck it, man.

[00:32:58] Let’s do it. 

[00:33:00] Mike: [00:33:00] Brianna. Must’ve gotten a shit kick out of that. That would’ve been funny.  She’s and she’s adorable. She’s she’s one of our interns and she’s actually been managing the calendaring and the outreach and stuff like that. And she does a really good job. I’m really proud of her. I don’t, I don’t know that she’s going to be with us forever.

[00:33:18] Cause she has actually found something that she really enjoys and I’d be remiss to ask her to stay if it was, if it wasn’t gonna make her happy. I would hope because she’s very efficient. She’s very good at what she does. And so are the rest of the interns. We’re, we’re really, we’re excited. Let’s put it that way.

[00:33:34] We actually found a, we actually found a group of gen Zs that had work. 

[00:33:41] Damon Burton: [00:33:41] If I’ve ever heard of a jug, a juxtaposition  what was interesting? So I was always in the middle. And then I always played the middle line on that, that, that discussion of gen Z’s. And I was like, I’m pretty, I’m pretty neutral on just about everything.

[00:33:59] I’m like, It’s not always black and white. Like anything politics, religion. 

[00:34:04] Mike: [00:34:04] It’s never black and white. That’s why I’m, that’s why, I’m what they consider a moderate I’m right down the middle. 

[00:34:09] Damon Burton: [00:34:09]  So 

[00:34:10] Mike: [00:34:10] I play on either side just for fun, but it’s just so I can shit post and shit talk. That’s about it.

[00:34:15] Damon Burton: [00:34:15] I did have my gen Z moment though. I, this was like, this was like two years ago and I was looking to hire new copywriter. And so I’m on the board of advisors at one of the local colleges, further digital marketing curricul suite. And so we’re at, or at this little board thing and, and part of the rounds at the end is like No, anything we can do for you guys in return, like the college process.

[00:34:39] And they said, I’m looking for a copywriter. And I know that’s not under the digital for, for me, it’s under the digital marketing relevant for curriculum. It’s not. And so they’re like, let me talk to one of our language arts people and see. And so this guy makes the intro and this person’s like, I got the perfect candidate there.

[00:34:54] They’re fresh this and that. And I go, Oh my God, I’m just thinking about this. So I go and meet up there. They were local. And so we go and meet, I talked to him on the phone or email or whatever, and I said, let’s go meet at this restaurant and we’ll grab a bite to eat. We’ll get to know each other.

[00:35:13] I’ll tell you about possibilities looking to fill. And you can tell me if you think it’s. A fit and obviously I’m screening their, their candidacy. And so we, we go. It was two Oh two for real bad this, so I get the restaurant, I pull up in the parking lot and 

[00:35:32] Mike: [00:35:32] I get out, which restaurant did you go to?

[00:35:34] This is gonna, this is going to set a good frame. 

[00:35:37] Damon Burton: [00:35:37] So it’s, it’s a local restaurant. There’s only, there’s only two in Utah. It’s called roosters. It’s like this micro pub, but they have like awesome food and stuff. 

[00:35:44] Mike: [00:35:44] Pubs have a tendency to do a little better than most people think. 

[00:35:47] Damon Burton: [00:35:47] So I, I go and Right out of the Gates, like in retrospect, it was just such a Twilight zone moment.

[00:35:57] I’d get out of the car. And for some reason I’m like, Well, I’m walking. I’m like, it really feels like someone’s looking at me and 

[00:36:07] Mike: [00:36:07] they were watching 

[00:36:07] Damon Burton: [00:36:07] you go in now, dude, you’re going to die. Oh, okay. But, but at the same time, I’m not like a tin hat learning kind of guy, like whatever. And I just keep moving.

[00:36:17] Right. And then I get in and I meet the, I meet the young lady and I’m like, come over here. And.we go sit down and she’s just kind of awkward, which is fine. And so we stood down and she’s like 18, 19. Now she was like 20 to 21. And so we’re talking and she’s like, I got to tell you something.  my parents were worried about the meeting you, so they’re they’re outside and they just texted me and said, I think that’s him walking in.

[00:36:46] You’ve learned from that. And I was like, Oh my God, I was, I was being watched. 

[00:36:51] Mike: [00:36:51] You had, you had the gut feeling 

[00:36:53] Damon Burton: [00:36:53] that was like right off the bat, like red flags, like all day is this twenty-something year old, having her parents drop her off. Why are they so insecurity? She can’t be by herself. Why is she okay with being that insecure?

[00:37:05] And so. I just talking to her and I just I’m nice. And, but it’s already a no, just that, like, I need somebody that’s independent and, and so we’re talking and she’s like, so, so what does full-time mean? And I’m like, what? And she’s like, like how many hours is that? And I’m like 35 to 40 a week usually.

[00:37:32]  And she’s like, okay, well, I don’t have a driver’s license or a bank account. So how would you pay me? I’m like, this is done. And so that was like, so I still, I’m still in the middle, on the whole gen Z gen Z thing, but that was my first in-person real life experiences, like, okay. 

[00:37:50] Mike: [00:37:50] So, so my experience, obviously I’m 49.

[00:37:56] Jeez, I’m 49. 

[00:37:58] Damon Burton: [00:37:58] You’re fucking all, 

[00:37:59] Mike: [00:37:59] dude. Fuck.

[00:38:04].the, so I I’ve experienced boomers X, Y, Z, all the way down the line. And. The chatter has always been the same about each generation. And what I’ve learned is each generation has the spectr. I don’t care where you’re at, what shows, what shows up a lot of times are the negatives. While the, while the positives are usually quiet because it’s par for the course it’s, what’s expected.

[00:38:33] So like when I had I’ve, I’ve had millennials. That didn’t do Jack. And I’ve had a couple millennials that were phenomenal. One who now works for a sleep number. I believe in corporate and she and I are still this day. She flew from North Dakota. She was going into you. She flew from North Dakota, Las Vegas held down a job while she worked as an intern for me here.

[00:38:59] Floored me went home, went through the whole the university called me, asked what he did. And I, I gave him the rundown. At that time I was working for the angel investment group and said, yeah, this is what she did, but not on the list. They’re like, wow. She did more than she needed to. I’m like, do you need proof?

[00:39:12] Cause I’ve got the work. You’re like, no, no, we’re good. She sends me pictures of her degrees off. She goes, yeah, three more after that, didn’t do a damn thing.  I got gen Z this round six of them and they’re all cranking while they’re holding down jobs. Yeah, all of them. And it’s like, the reason I picked up six is like, I know you guys have work to do, and you got other stuff.

[00:39:35] I need to make sure that one, while one, I can’t get more than eight or 10 hours of work a week. Cause their interns until I, till I flip them secondly, it’s like, they got a life. If somebody can’t do it, I have to have the resources to cover what projects we have. So we do, we all cover each other. We’re all, they all talk with each other.

[00:39:54] At first it was just kind of everybody getting used to each other. And then there are the gen Z’s that are absolutely like what you had. So it’s not, I don’t call it a generational thing because we only see, we only see the stuff that’s. Odd awkward out of place or just out like 

[00:40:15] Damon Burton: [00:40:15] that one. It’s just, yeah, it’s the same circstances.

[00:40:18] It’s just different things. It’s it’s it’s 

[00:40:21] Mike: [00:40:21] how many boys have you come across like that dude? I mean, it doesn’t matter what generation they are. I mean, just 

[00:40:28] Damon Burton: [00:40:28] my employee approach. 

[00:40:31] Mike: [00:40:31] Okay. Now, now here’s, here’s the next section, ladies and gentlemen, get ready here. It comes. 

[00:40:36] Damon Burton: [00:40:36] You just did open up a new yeah, I would put my team loyalty up against anybody’s and here’s what makes this even more amazing is go back six months.

[00:40:48] and I my longest employee has been a favorite 12 years prior to six months. So I have 20 employees. About half of them are in the States, half are in the Philippines, right? Six months ago, I had never met any of them in person. I still have not met any of the ones in the States. And I have only met, I met about 75% of the ones in the Philippines in March and 

[00:41:13] Mike: [00:41:13] the post about that.

[00:41:14] That was, that was cool. 

[00:41:16] Damon Burton: [00:41:16] Yeah, I brought it.  I brought him. So there’s so many things I talked about about the Philippines trip, but I’ll just talk about one thing. I brought them snow because they’re always talking about like, and it takes snow all 

[00:41:27] Mike: [00:41:27] the way out there. 

[00:41:28] Damon Burton: [00:41:28] I’ll tell ya. So it’s it’s obviously more tropical climate there.

[00:41:33]  And in the winter I complain about how cold it is here. And they’re like, well, here’s some sunshine and they’re like, send us some call because they’re just like sweating to death. And I’m always like so you asked for it. So they’ve always joked about send us some snow. So what I did is. I went and bought some souvenir, Utah shot glasses, like eight, nine, 10 ones with and scenes, but they all said to Utah and yeah, and, and it snowed because I went and met them in the first week of March.

[00:42:02] And so like January, February, I bought the snowball. I bought the, the shot glasses and fill them with snow. Of course the snow is going to melt. But what I did was I sealed them. I sealed the shot. I filled them with snow, took pictures of the smell. So they would believe me. And then I sealed it with hot wax.

[00:42:17] Oh, cool. And so it’s the snow, the snow, the water in there. And so when I went and met him I got this cool picture of us in the hotel and we, we talked and gave hugs and then we were walking out dinner and then I was like, Oh, I forgot something. Like, I’d been so excited to give it to them that I just like totally forgot in the moment of actually meeting them.

[00:42:39] And so I was like, come back, come back, come back, come back back. So we can walk in there, like. I got, I got something for everybody and they’re like, what is it? Oh, what is it? And one of them said he brought a snow and I, and I just freaking bust out laughing. I was like, dude, you’re not wrong. And I opened up, I put them in a padded envelope and and so I gave him a shot glass with the wall, with the melted snow on it.

[00:43:01] And then I gave him, I had taken a picture of each one to the snow before it melted. And so I said, yeah, I just laid them out all out on the bed. And I said Take whichever one.

[00:43:14] Mike: [00:43:14] It is. So see those, those things as well. First off that wasn’t a small thing, cause that took some effort, but it’s little things like that, that breed loyalty, like nobody’s business like any, any new swag we create out here, I try to get out to our team as much. In fact, you just reminded me, I got to send out coasters, you got the coaster I sent you, right?

[00:43:37] Damon Burton: [00:43:37] Coaster. I don’t think so. I 

[00:43:39] Mike: [00:43:39] thought I sent you a coaster. 

[00:43:41] Damon Burton: [00:43:41] What does it look like? 

[00:43:42] Mike: [00:43:42] Like that? No. All right, 

[00:43:46] Mike: [00:43:46] I’m going to have to send you some shit.  I’m a Dick. It’s it’s it’s true. 

[00:43:50] Damon Burton: [00:43:50] yeah, I’ve never had an employee quit. I’ve fired a few very rarely, but yeah, 

[00:43:56] Mike: [00:43:56] that’s another thing about hiring and firing is a lot of people still.

[00:44:00] And this has been, this has been pped on by quite a few different people hire slow fire fast. and I don’t think people understand the effects of your business if you don’t. I mean, like taking the time that you did and the taking the time that I do, going through people and figuring out who they are, what they’re about, and then watching.

[00:44:20] and, and watching me too, I mean, we did a performance review, like in the second month with our interns. It’s almost time to do it again right after seasons. They’ll get another survey. but the idea is if we’re not on the same page our clients are gonna suffer. 

[00:44:35] Damon Burton: [00:44:35] It just doesn’t make sense.

[00:44:38] Mike: [00:44:38] I think, I think for the, and sometimes it’s not even a skill set thing they might be the best, whatever on the planet. But it just doesn’t 

[00:44:47] Damon Burton: [00:44:47] work by.  Yeah, no, I that’s why when we started this hiring conversation I was joking, you opened up a whole new discussion because you, now that like, I way front load my efforts, when you say what’s your experience with employees and their consistency?

[00:45:04] Did I have zero problems? Because I, I make sure it’s, it’s way. It’s way worth spending, way more. We’re spending a lot of time being very. methodical and strategic and observant in hiring than to just die by a thousand cuts later and have disasters to clean up. So I’d way rather. Well, so here, here’s the short version of how I hire.

[00:45:28] So I put out when I put out the job listing, I, I see. I structure the posting in a very strategic way. So at the top I put like, Hey, here’s all the sexy things. Here’s the fun responsibilities you’ll have. And then I jped down the bottom and I put here’s your compensation. and then in the middle I put an Easter egg.

[00:45:44] And so, because people are always like, what are responsibilities? How much am I gonna get paid? And so in the middle I put Don’t message me on this job platform. I’m not going to read it. My preferred method of communication is Skype. And when you Skype me, you have to send me the message that.T-Rex has sexy arms, like just something stupid that nobody would ever messaged you.

[00:46:10] And then, so what I’m looking for is a people that can read, be people who can follow directions. And so I’ve made the mistake in the past. people had messaged me on the job already when I told them not to. And I look at the rese and I’m like, Ooh, that’s a good rese. And so I’d follow up and it just never freaking works.

[00:46:27] And so. That’s like your first safety net is set up a little game, a little Easter egg, and then when they reach out to you when they message me on Skype, they may, they may message me on Skype, but if they don’t tell me about how sexy T-Rex arms are, I don’t reply. And then once they get through that, then I do like a paid test because I also want to be respectful.

[00:46:45] I don’t expect people to just. Come in and make an effort. And if it doesn’t work out, so I’m like here, how does this much compensation sound for a one time thing? If it doesn’t work out that we didn’t waste any time, but at least I can really see cause anybody can put anything on a rese. I don’t know.

[00:47:00] I almost don’t even care about the rese. I just want to go like, okay. Yeah, they have the general experience now. Prove it. And so I have them do the test whatever their skill set is, the tests will vary. And then so, so as you go through this, you get. A hundred applicants, 50 of them don’t follow the rules and they message you directly on the platform that sweet 50% gone.

[00:47:24] Yep. Then 25 of the 50 message you on Skype or whatever your preferred method of communication is, but they don’t tell you how sexy T-Rex is. Arms are sweet. There’s another 50%. Yep. So then you reply. You have a short engagement for whatever reason, half of the people don’t say anything more than hi, and then the other half, and you’re down now, you’re down to like five, 10 people give him the pain test.

[00:47:48] Half of those people don’t complete it. another 25% of them that do don’t do it efficiently. And now you’re left with like two or three people. And then I just have a conversation with them. And then 

[00:47:58] Mike: [00:47:58] I wish I would’ve known you back when I was in the angel investment Corp. Cause that was my job was finding new talent.

[00:48:03] Alongside of finding new deals. I mean, when, whenever we got into a project, it was like, okay, you don’t have enough people here. I remember we worked on it project here. we had something like, I want to say a hundred or a hundred and something applicants obviously here in Vegas, it’s a lot more transient.

[00:48:22] So I think it was more like 65% didn’t even bother to show up appointment type of the ones that were left. I think maybe we had. One or two it’s really bad. One or two that were worth hiring. two more that we wanted to, but couldn’t because of their backgrounds. and the two that we, that were worth hiring never showed up for the second appointment.

[00:48:48] Damon Burton: [00:48:48]  It’s so you see the weirdest stuff in the hiring process. 

[00:48:52] Mike: [00:48:52] It is really odd. I’ve got some friends in HR. You should hear some of their stories. Oh my gosh. 

[00:48:57] Damon Burton: [00:48:57] I bet I’ll give you one of them. I’ll tell you, go, go, go. I’ll tell you one thing. I did me. Oh, so this will actually I’ll tell you too. So before I had, before I started my company one job that I ended up getting when I went in to it was the weirdest thing.

[00:49:17] This guy just called me on an hour. I was working at just this normal whatever job and I get a phone call on my cell phone and I didn’t know the nber. So I answered and the guy’s like, Hey, I’m a, I’m a head Hunter. And I found your rese on monster. And I’m like, dude, I didn’t even know. I still had my rese on monster.

[00:49:33] I last time I touched that was like three years ago. Cool. Whatever. Cause.the job I was at was just. He’s a job. 

[00:49:38] Mike: [00:49:38] He was a Digger. 

[00:49:40] Damon Burton: [00:49:40]  And so so he ends up, I ended up going to meet this guy for the interview and Whoa, while we’re talking, we’re, face-to-face at a table we’re like three feet apart and we’re like five, 10 minutes into it.

[00:49:54] And then all of a sudden he’s like,

[00:49:58] like brushing his nose and I’m like, and he’s doing it long enough that clearly it wasn’t just. 

[00:50:04] Mike: [00:50:04] No, it wasn’t 

[00:50:04] Damon Burton: [00:50:04] in itch.  And so 

[00:50:06] Mike: [00:50:06] I wasn’t that kind of itch. 

[00:50:08] Damon Burton: [00:50:08]  And so, so I 

[00:50:09] Mike: [00:50:09] guess I recognize that motion. That’s 

[00:50:11] Damon Burton: [00:50:11] not, no, it’s not cocaine. That’s 

[00:50:15] Mike: [00:50:15] usually what they do too. That’s almost exactly what, 

[00:50:19] Damon Burton: [00:50:19] so then, so then, so then I go.

[00:50:22] Do I got something, let me know. So he’s like, yeah bro. Sorry, I just couldn’t. I just couldn’t do it anymore. You got like a fat Booker, like, right. So I was just like, all right, let me take care of that. That’s funny. Still it’s it’s been like 15, 16 years and I still talk to that guy every other year. Like we just stayed in touch and not, I mean, after 

[00:50:43] Mike: [00:50:43] you, after something like that happens, how can you not stay in touch with somebody?

[00:50:46] Hey man. 

[00:50:48] Damon Burton: [00:50:48] Well like that one you would think, well, it sound embarrassing. I actually don’t I don’t care about that one. The one that was kind of embarrassing looking back was this was like, after that no, this was right before, so this was right before that job. I did, I didn’t get this job.

[00:51:04] I’m about to tell you. But later, ironically, I came back to that company and I did get a job with them at a higher level. So it’s kind of funny. So I didn’t, I didn’t tell them this story, not until after I got hired. So so I get the, this is what I was doing. You’re getting into internet marketing and there was a job at the design agency and.

[00:51:31] I I got my wisdom teeth pulled and, and then all sudden they call me for job interview and so same, same kind of thing. Like my phone rings don’t know who it is and I answer. 

[00:51:45] Mike: [00:51:45] Like you literally, I was about to say like, you literally just had them and you answered them. 

[00:51:49] Damon Burton: [00:51:49] Yeah, yeah,  Geez. Well, I don’t know if it was like the same day, but it was within like 48 hours, 24 hours.

[00:51:56] Mike: [00:51:56] And you’re still, you’re still hurting. 

[00:51:58] Damon Burton: [00:51:58] I still had the mouth full of cotton and.so she’s like, yeah, we just got your rese and I want to know if you can come in and, and I was like, yeah, sure, sure. And so I, I go in there and I was just like, I was. I was relatively confident, not, not at the level I am now, but I was, I think I was confident, but a little stupid.

[00:52:19] And so it, so it was like, it was in my mind, I’m like, yeah, I’m confident. I don’t care that I got my visit instead of like, I’m confident, but that stupid Damon. And so I go into this interview and I still got the puffy chip. Oh my gosh. And I sit down and, and I don’t really rationalize this until in retrospect.

[00:52:40] And she’s just like, Are you sure you want to do this interview? And I’m literally like, mbling like that. And I never heard back from him that

[00:52:55] Mike: [00:52:55] I can imagine the after the, after conversations.  He showed up, even though he had Kristen 

[00:53:02] Damon Burton: [00:53:02] player is definitely a conversation. That’s right. 

[00:53:05] Mike: [00:53:05] I don’t know if we should hire him though. That’s a little too much balls. 

[00:53:08] Damon Burton: [00:53:08] Yeah, yeah,  I was, I was they’re gen Z are they’re like, fuck that guy. 

[00:53:13] Mike: [00:53:13] That’s too funny.

[00:53:15] Yeah, I know that I’ve, I’ve had a few job interviews in the past. nothing is funny as that, but it’s it’s for me, it’s always been The N the unknowing intelligence, native being a little too smart for his own good and not knowing how to shut up. And that was, that was my downfall back then is sometimes I would let out a little too much.

[00:53:42] And then those above me would be like, yeah, he’s got to go. been through that, done that. It’s one of the reasons why I’m psychologically unemployable, because I don’t have a problem telling you what I think. It’s a good 

[00:53:53] Damon Burton: [00:53:53] it’s in the curse. 

[00:53:54] Mike: [00:53:54] Well, for, for us as business owners, it’s a gift.  It lends to our transparency as an employee.

[00:53:59] It’s horrible. Even in the, even in the mid-level mid senior level management, you got to watch that one. 

[00:54:08] Damon Burton: [00:54:08]  Especially depending on the industry, 

[00:54:13] Mike: [00:54:13] you, you offend the wrong person. Then we, in fact, I just was just having a conversation with Somebody who I’m becoming friends with really quick.

[00:54:24] he has a SAS company. they have a product that works very well, and we all got on a call, our partners and him and his marketing guy who heads up his marketing. The moment somebody tells me that. It’s like this contractor, but they acted like they were a partner. 

[00:54:45] Damon Burton: [00:54:45] So 

[00:54:46] Mike: [00:54:46] that’s okay. I catch one of the nice things about being an empath is you can feel shit even through a phone call or a zoom call.

[00:54:53] It’s really interesting. And some of his, some of his comments and then his silence told me everything. And so I reached back out to him and I said, Hey, let’s let’s just a couple of owners. Let’s get on the phone to talk. And we did. We had a great conversation. He really appreciated the fact that I wanted to come back and talk and I said, Hey, I need to ask you something only because I’m a little concerned.

[00:55:14] And I asked him, I said, is this person really your partner? And he’s like, no, no, no, no, there are no partners. It’s just me. I was like, ah, so this is a contractor because everybody’s an independent contractor. And I was like, Makes absolute sense. Here’s what I, here’s what I saw. And he’s like, yeah, well, I already told him, I’m going to tell you how to do it.

[00:55:30] You’re just going to figure out how to get it done. And I was like, it sounds like an order to me, 

[00:55:37] Damon Burton: [00:55:37] What the, the I was rolling my eyes on, you were talking about sky because I see this every, every once a year, twice a year,  what I call it, I call it new sheriff syndrome.

[00:55:50] So I’m going through right now. I got this new technology client and they had, they had their marketing guy and he was a contractor, but he’s, he’s super cool. I liked this guy and because he, like, he was actually on our side or it’s like, let the experts be the experts and I’m just going to support them when they asked me to, well, all sudden we get.

[00:56:10] The, the owner of the company brings in the good old boys. And so the, the new VP of whatever brings in his good old boys. And so then there’s all these new sheriffs rolling in and we get in 

[00:56:21] Mike: [00:56:21] too many chiefs, not enough Indians, 

[00:56:24] Damon Burton: [00:56:24] they just got to prove their worth. And so they’re in there like trying to look for any gaps and this and that.

[00:56:30] And so we get on this, we get on this meeting and we have the. The, the old contact, the guy like, yeah, he’s still in the picture, but he’s slowly getting phased out. And then the new guy who’s like this super amateur guy and he’s overseas, which is fine being overseas. 

[00:56:45] Mike: [00:56:45] Okay. Super amateur guy wise is Y said, ah 

[00:56:48] it’s 

[00:56:49] Damon Burton: [00:56:49] Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, no, but I mean the combination of the super amateur guy and being overseas and him needing to prove his value, he comes in and we’re on call nber one.

[00:56:57] And it’s just cringe-worthy is like, so we’re talking about SEO stuff and he’s like, did we do keyword research? And like, Yeah, here’s the files. And to bring up a screen, share my screen. And he’s like, well, did we look at competitors? And like, Yeah, I hear and he’s like trying to find something, right?

[00:57:12] Yeah, they did not. They, 

[00:57:13] Mike: [00:57:13] they don’t in a manner of, cause if it, in all honesty, anybody that isn’t an amateur would have reached out to whoever it was first before the call and said, Hey, I just want to get with you and find out what you guys have already done so that when we get on the call, I can be at least a little more productive to support you in what you’re already done.

[00:57:33] If, I mean, if you’ve done all of this stuff already, I can go looking for other shifts to do. I don’t, I don’t need to mess with it. Yeah, but every time, and this happened with, with the other side too, the one I was just telling you about, I started talking about AI and first party data and identity resolution.

[00:57:51] He starts going off track. And he says a couple of things and I was just like, yeah, he doesn’t know what we’re talking about, but he’s trying to, he’s trying to, he’s trying to down it though. You can hear it. And I’m like, br, 

[00:58:03] Damon Burton: [00:58:03] where we get off, we get off the call and well, the, the, the old guy is sending a private practice.

[00:58:11] Mike: [00:58:11] I’m sure he was sitting there going I’m so sorry, dude. 

[00:58:13] Damon Burton: [00:58:13] He did. No. He said he sends me a map and he’s like, it was just short, like dude or something like that, ? And so. I get off and I sent him a message like on LinkedIn. So it’s like awesome. 

[00:58:27] Mike: [00:58:27]  Away from everything. Yeah, yeah,  

[00:58:29] Damon Burton: [00:58:29]  And I go, I kind of got the vibe.

[00:58:31] He wanted to talk and self and he’s like, I am so like, F-bomb tirade. Like I am so fucking sorry, dude. He goes, that was embarrassing. That that guy came in and asked all those basic questions and this and this and this, and, and I’ve been through. I I’ve been through that plenty of times. So, so, so I CA I, I come back and I try to give the guy again, serve respectfully, but also reinforcing, like, don’t step on my toes, bro.

[00:59:00] And then, but another perfect example is why this always fails is because we had this one company, I won’t say who they are, but massive international real estate company. And they were worth more than tens of millions of dollars. And then within, within a couple months of us working with them, they’re valued at a hundred million dollars and so nice new sheriffs come rolling in.

[00:59:28] We get phased out six months later, they’re bankrupt and an administration six months from a hundred million dollars to bankrupt. 

[00:59:38] Mike: [00:59:38] So it’s not the first time I’ve seen that or heard that this happens a lot in startups. especially because the guys that call themselves startup experts or anything, but 

[00:59:51] Damon Burton: [00:59:51] they’re, they’re just fundraisers.

[00:59:53] They’re fundraisers get the money. 

[00:59:55] Mike: [00:59:55] They really don’t get, they really don’t understand. And, and, and don’t get me wrong. There’s a place for equity firms as a place for VCs, a place for angel investors. A lot of startups don’t know the difference between the three, the purposes for each one and how to deal with each so that you don’t end up BK.

[01:00:13] and, and when you, and, and it could be something as, as just one element, like what moving you guys out and bringing another team in that don’t really know what they’re doing but by the way, If you are one of those guys, that’s a new sheriff, please. Don’t do what we’re describing. Jesus. Save yourself the embarrassment, save yourself the headache, save them the headache and just listen.

[01:00:37] Just be honest, just be honest, like, listen, I don’t know what you guys have done. I don’t know what you haven’t done. Is there some way we can collaborate for info? So I’m not. One stepping on toes to double efforting. Anything, because the moment you start asking those basic questions, you now double the effort on something that’s already been finished.

[01:00:54] That is not value to your client. I don’t care what you say. I don’t care if you think you’re better than they are. And you’re just trying to check up on somebody for one. I didn’t do that. When we were on that call, I was just like, I know this is what you got. Cool. Awesome. It works. We have nothing to say.

[01:01:12] I’m not touching it. I don’t want your job. Here’s what we do. And this is where we think we can benefit you the most. And if that, and if that fits awesome, we’ll do it. If it doesn’t fit. Awesome, love you. Call us, call us. If you ever need us, I’d rather not have a problem child, but for, for somebody out there who considers themselves an expert, let me roll my eyes the back of my head again.

[01:01:36].Don’t don’t don’t, don’t get too full of yourself. There are other people out there that have other things that will help enhance what you’re already doing, bring them in, make them a part of the, make them a part of the fam. Just dig into them and learn everything you can’t. You’re not going to lose your position if you’ve been effective already have nothing to worry about if you haven’t.

[01:01:56] Well, maybe then you may want to think about it but don’t try to ruin your, your owner cause your owner’s going to turn around and just can your ass anyway. 

[01:02:04] Damon Burton: [01:02:04] It’ll just tell you, I got this new lead that I’m nervous about because 

[01:02:08] Mike: [01:02:08] you want me to, you want me to prospect them? I’ll tell them 

[01:02:11] Damon Burton: [01:02:11] no, I know the answers already and now, and I don’t know why I’m still considering them.

[01:02:14] Yes. I really don’t know why. I don’t know if it’s just because it’s like this new sexy company and it’d be like a cool portfolio line item or what, like, it is just screaming red flags and They’re they’re just making me go through the rounds of RFPs and all this bullshit. And it’s like, look, we’re like, we’re good.

[01:02:33] Mike: [01:02:33] Fuck those RFPs anymore. Jesus. Are you kidding me now?

[01:02:36] Damon Burton: [01:02:36] No. And so I haven’t heard from him in like two or three weeks. I just get an email yesterday and it’s it says, Hey, we want to proceed to the next round. I’m like,

[01:02:47] Mike: [01:02:47] do people really understand what RFPs are really for.  where that what that really is. I mean, other than the enterprise 

[01:02:55] Damon Burton: [01:02:55] government, exactly. 

[01:02:57] Mike: [01:02:57] It’s a government piece of paper that sits there and tells you a whole bunch of shit that never gets done. You want to, I know this, I used to work for a construction company back in Mali.

[01:03:04] We used to look at RFPs that were this fricking thick. The civil would go through it. I’d look at them. I go, do you really read all that? And he goes, nah, these are the pages I really look at. And I’m like, then why do you keep thbing through it? He says, because it got to look like I’m busy. Yeah, what the hell is the rest of the story?

[01:03:18] It’s just a bunch of malarkey. It’s just words. 

[01:03:20] Damon Burton: [01:03:20] Oh, that’s so painful.  And so it’s like, so, so they said, Hey, we want to move to the next phase, which is cringe. And then I can’t remember what else they said, but they said something like they said, can you provide. I got to get it. I got to read it because 

[01:03:34] Mike: [01:03:34] dude, we got time.

[01:03:36] Damon Burton: [01:03:36] The words that they use was just like the nail in the coffin. And I don’t know why I’m still considering IVF. Well, 

[01:03:44] Mike: [01:03:44]  while you’re looking for that, we’re going to take a quick 32nd break. We come back, we’ll get, we’ll dig into this. We’ll dig into this email, you guys. And just as a minute, as soon as you pull it up, let me know.

[01:03:55] Damon Burton: [01:03:55] I got it. 

[01:03:56] Mike: [01:03:56] Okay, dude, this is, this is what I want to do right here, because this is bullshit. But these stories and this, this is the real, as much as it’s bullshit, this is the real shit. This is what people have to deal with. And this is what people are wanting to hear. how do you deal with this?

[01:04:15] Where’s the real, where’s the real. Yeah, I can only do so much in an hour there. 

[01:04:19] Damon Burton: [01:04:19] They really said RFP. I didn’t know that I didn’t really 

[01:04:22] Mike: [01:04:22] think anybody would do that. And you’re not listened to, unless you’re like a nine figure company. And, and even if you are a nine figure company and RFP, all it does is fuck up your whole, your whole process.

[01:04:33] Damon Burton: [01:04:33]  It never gets shot.  what makes us worse? I’m gonna read this in a minute.  what makes us worse? I was so cringed out that I didn’t even read the whole thing and looking at it now they even gave me, can you please have a plan by November 4th, ELD.  yeah, they want end of day, certain, like, I really can say, 

[01:04:53] Mike: [01:04:53] I was just like, 

[01:04:54] Damon Burton: [01:04:54] I’m sorry.

[01:04:54] I’m really considering writing back and saying, I can just tell this isn’t a match. All right. So here it says, 

[01:04:58] Mike: [01:04:58] Oh hell, let’s get back in three, two. All right guys, we’re back. And we’re about to get into this email roll 

[01:05:06] Damon Burton: [01:05:06] in, man. It’s good stuff. Yeah, it was great. How good this is. 

[01:05:10] Mike: [01:05:10] People need to hear this.

[01:05:12] People do need to hear this guys talking about, you’re talking about a truly cringe-worthy proposal that was said, well, no request for proposal, which was usually only done by government entities or enterprise companies that are like eight or nine figures. I don’t know that these guys are anywhere close to this, so they 

[01:05:30] Damon Burton: [01:05:30] they’re a startup.

[01:05:31] Mike: [01:05:31] They’re a startup. So they’ve got some, they’ve got somebody who’s, who’s academically intelligent and trying to try to make them sound, make themselves sound intelligent. And we’re about to hear the ear. We’re about to hear the email team and got asking for them. For him to continue 

[01:05:48] Damon Burton: [01:05:48] the stress in there.

[01:05:52] Mike: [01:05:52] And I said, this will be good for a laugh, so let’s hear it. 

[01:05:56] Damon Burton: [01:05:56] Amen. Thank you again for your patience and for submitting a proposal, we are interested in moving forward on next steps in our RFP process. For the next phase, we are asking you to create a three month plan timeline that is tactical specific and allows us to understand how you would hit the ground running with X.

[01:06:15] Please note. For this exercise, we ask you to asse you would be working with our own content agency, not sourcing the content arm internally from your agency. We will then ask your team to present the three-month plan to us with our manager for discussion. Can we please have this plan by another, before the ELD dude reading that full thing?

[01:06:31] That’s an L I just that’s a no. 

[01:06:33] Mike: [01:06:33] So first line would already been a no for me. And here’s why, here’s why the moment somebody gets academic. I already know, they don’t know what they’re talking about. No, most times there are some that really do, but unless they’ve actually had experience in startups, that line that first-line.

[01:06:52] Damon Burton: [01:06:52]  Like the fact that if I got to prove, prove what we do, the fact that you were introduced by a referral that had a home run. And you’re aware of very clearly what we do. If you already haven’t, now I’ve already given you the outline and that you’re asking for it and it was proactively in the proposal.

[01:07:11] Yep. Oh, 

[01:07:12] Mike: [01:07:12]  My, my, my biggest concern that that’s a problem child in their wings right there. For sure. So, yeah, I know I’m agreeing with you. I know as a no, I, when I, when I was when I was the investment manager for the angel group that I was working for I used to hang out downtown Las Vegas down near the Zappos area.

[01:07:29] And there were a lot of great tech kids that were coming up with cool ideas and products and stuff like that. And there’s definitely still around. no, the user library usually lives gone. It’s been gone for a while. They’ve they’ve completely redone downtown and it’s, it’s got a real nice Renaissance going on, but no, that’s, that’s all gone.

[01:07:46] the, the interesting thing was is that when I came across people that had products for the most part one, they didn’t even know what they were doing. They knew tech, but they didn’t understand business, but I came across one group that created a new social network app. 

[01:08:05] Damon Burton: [01:08:05] we need more of those. 

[01:08:06] Mike: [01:08:06] We do.

[01:08:07] Cause we don’t, we don’t, there’s just not enough. They had a great app. It was great. They had a, yeah, 

[01:08:17] Damon Burton: [01:08:17] we were both so much so good at that. I don’t know. People know how to take that comment. 

[01:08:25] Mike: [01:08:25] They either will, or they want one of those. But, so it was, it was interesting because I had, I had a meeting with the core team, which was three people.

[01:08:34] Then they were the, the CEO. and they’re there. Chief technical officer and stuff. And I was like, okay, whatever. what do you got? And they showed me the thing I said, well, this looks like a good idea. I mean, you, you’ve got a hell of a gorilla to fight against, but you can carve out enough of a market.

[01:08:51] Where do you see your revenue coming from? They had an idea. It was, it was, it was perfect for an angel because there was no POC, no proof of concept. So I said, okay, well, let’s, let’s get this to a phase of, do you have all of this stuff on paper? Yeah, we pretty much do. I says, okay, cool. Send me an NDA.

[01:09:10] I’ll take a look at it. And if I think it’s worth it, I’ll take it to the group. They said, well, we need you to meet our investor relations person who, but we have an an investor relations representative. You do?  All right. Have a reach out. They did. and they said, well, I, I, their first email and I just basically cut my throat guessed.

[01:09:39] the first email that comes across, we I’d like to set up an appointment to sit down and talk with you and learn more about you and what you’d like to invest in. And this is all directed at me. And I wrote back, I said, I’m sorry, I don’t, I’m not. I’m not understanding your request here. I was told you’d be reaching out to me to help me get the documents I need to be able to.

[01:10:02] Oh, well, we don’t know if we want to work with you. We need to know that there’s a fit.  I’m sorry. What? I’m the investment manager? I’m the gateway to the money. 185 angel investors representing nine figures.  You want to know me? I’m not the guy you want to know. Second. Where do you think, what do you think you do in here?

[01:10:29] I mean, you honestly believe that your position, you have no proof of concept. You have no, no foundation. You have nothing but an app. You actually think you’re in a position to start acting like you have the choice to who you work with. Really, this is interesting. Please tell me more. I ended up going back to the CEO and telling him, yeah, we’re we’re, we’re done.

[01:10:52] And he goes, well, what happened? And I laid out the emails and he goes, well, let me talk to her. I said, no, no, no, you don’t have to talk to her. I’m out. So’s my nine figures. We’re good. Thank you very much for your, for your time. And I haven’t talked to him since, and the, the idea is you can’t one, you can’t look a gift horse in the mouth.

[01:11:12] And truly it was a gift horse deal because I was ready to put their deal on the table until they brought that other person in. 

[01:11:19] Damon Burton: [01:11:19]  what I put it in our contracts. I literally have a clause that says too many chefs in the kitchen. And it says if at any point you bring in another person to work on the scope of our responsibilities, whether in-house, or, or otherwise otherwise, or we’re out and you’re buying the contract out.

[01:11:38] Mike: [01:11:38] It’s it’s only fair. Cause the only thing that, and I’m sure there’s a lot of our listeners that know this, but there are a few that probably don’t. The only thing that, that more people working on the same scope of work ends up doing is creating confusion. 

[01:11:53] Damon Burton: [01:11:53] Dude, you want to know? I got a perfect example.

[01:11:56] So we got, I got this friend that I actually got two stories with him and one about VC. So I’ll, I’ll do the VC one. Later. so on the topic of too many, too many chefs in the kitchen. So he comes in, he works with a lot of brands. He does a lot of investments. He does his side project. So this is one of his side projects.

[01:12:15] And he’s like, Hey, I want to blend my network, make this website that basically does like a tech stack. And so we can connect you with certain providers with certain discounts, because there are certain relationships. And so his partner, he’s got like a, I’m guessing 50, 50 partner on, on one of his entities.

[01:12:32] And he’s like, My partner doesn’t want to do this. I told them whatever take, take out, offset my compensation until it pays for itself. I don’t care. I think this is going to work. Right. And so it was one friends, just all against it. So him and I are just working directly and we build out the site, we launch it and then like two weeks ago.

[01:12:54] So this was like maybe two months ago. So like two weeks ago, I was telling somebody else about this cool site we launched and we’re going to be doing all these things. And the site’s broken. And so I go, I’m like.they, they gutted the custom design, all the SEO content we added has gone. It’s got a template WordPress website now.

[01:13:13] And so I text, I email my friend and I was like, what happened? And he writes back and he says, he says your word. He says too many chiefs, man. And so he’s like, we’ll talk about it another time. And so what was funny or ironic about this whole thing is that the dude that didn’t want anything to do with it.

[01:13:30] Mike: [01:13:30] Had to have been the, him 

[01:13:31] Damon Burton: [01:13:31] now comes in and he’s like, fuck. Yeah, but we need to take a different approach and just broke the whole thing.  

[01:13:37] Mike: [01:13:37] He, he basically screwed his own pocket died by doing that. There’s one thing you never ever do. If, if you’ve already got something wrong, this isn’t a bonsai tree.

[01:13:48] You got to let it grow on its own. If it’s already moving in the right direction, you can’t go changing the direction and thinking, Oh, we’re going to pivot. Fuck. If the thing’s working, you don’t pivot. You don’t fix what ain’t broke 

[01:13:57] Damon Burton: [01:13:57] through. It’s been sitting there for weeks now. Just dead. Oh shit. I’m sure it’s still a WordPress template.

[01:14:05] Mike: [01:14:05] So what is it? There’s an old cliche saying around that. Cut your nose to spite your face. It’s old, it’s old it. Yeah, literally you have a perfect face and cut your nose off. That was really smart. The, the, the intent to try to make yourself the right. And ends up losing, losing a huge treasure because you, you have to be right.

[01:14:30] That’s complete. That’s complete. 

[01:14:32] Damon Burton: [01:14:32] Well, well this same guy 

[01:14:34] Mike: [01:14:34] Eagle is a bit, excuse me. 

[01:14:36] Damon Burton: [01:14:36] This is the same guy ties into the VC story with the same two people, but for one of their other entities. So they picked up this huge, there was this huge brand that was backed by SoftBank that went the font, and then they pick them for pick them up for pennies on the dollar.

[01:14:52] And so I, him being my friend, I helped him out with what I can restoring the website, pulling back backups, whatever, and just simply by reestablishing their historical backups, their traffic doubled literally within a week. And then the same homie, he is super. Robotic about his actions like this is the path we do with everything.

[01:15:18] And he comes in and him, and he took on VC money, which I get, because he had to get this funded. Like it was just because of the pennies on dollar. It doesn’t mean it was still in the millions of dollars. Right, right. And so 

[01:15:31] Mike: [01:15:31] it could literally be pennies. 

[01:15:34] Damon Burton: [01:15:34] So he Takes on these investors. And that’s a whole other discussion too, is just the type of personality that our investors and I’m squeezing every dollar out.

[01:15:43] My friend’s done enough of these VC deals that he knows it comes with the territory, but I could feel. The dissatisfaction in his quality of life, dealing with these people. And he had only been dealing with it for like three weeks. And so he ends up like they just conspired so much and that he’s financially, he made an awesome move, like he’s getting out.

[01:16:09] But yeah, so I, I mean, this was a short window. This is like a six month. Train wreck. And I imagine it was emotionally traumatic, so, but it’s going to be worth as well for just a six month thing. But man, what an intense, like freaking mental mind went through 

[01:16:26] Mike: [01:16:26] when he gets involved in a business? To my understanding, I, we were actually looking for VC for the tech company before I stepped out.

[01:16:35] we talked with about, I think as a group we talked with about three different funds. We hadn’t had POC yet. He was, he was, he was actually supposed to be talking to angel investors. and I had taken them to the old group that I worked for and they weren’t interested cause it wasn’t really an app. It was more of a physical product paired with an app for meeting space.

[01:16:54] and it ended up looking like kind of like a, we work. Speaking of SoftBank. 

[01:17:00] Damon Burton: [01:17:00] I heard, yeah, I heard they’re like bailing them out. I haven’t looked it up though. 

[01:17:03] Mike: [01:17:03] They are still bailing them out. They a whole nother conversation, 

[01:17:08] Damon Burton: [01:17:08] they with them, but yeah, we don’t need to get down it, but were they with them before COVID or only after 

[01:17:14] Mike: [01:17:14] they’ve been with them for awhile?

[01:17:15] SoftBank’s actually pulled him out of the floor a couple of times. I both times.  It’s it’s. Not going to get into it, but the idea of it is, is that when you, when you go to a VC, you literally are giving up a lot of executive control. And yeah, the personality is out the window, but you’re, you’re going to be giving up a lot of executive control and that’s just how it is.

[01:17:43].it doesn’t matter what VC you’re with. 

[01:17:46] Damon Burton: [01:17:46] interesting. Was that, go ahead. Go ahead. Go ahead. 

[01:17:50] Mike: [01:17:50] What we found interesting about VCs is that they’ll come in and they’ll replace the whole crew and they’ll keep one guy and that’s the guy they lean on. They keep a key employee or a couple of key in place, but the weight of the world’s on their shoulders until everybody else is trained.

[01:18:05] And then they can leave. and that can be a shipment like your buddy just went 

[01:18:10] Damon Burton: [01:18:10] through.  

[01:18:12] Mike: [01:18:12] Cause you don’t get, you don’t get a break, 

[01:18:14] Damon Burton: [01:18:14] even if they take, like, even if you’re giving up equity and control in this circumstance. On paper, he wasn’t supposed to, it doesn’t fucking matter. They’re coming in and that, and they are just pushing their opinions so hard that it doesn’t matter if they have a right to push it or not like it’s gonna happen.

[01:18:32] Mike: [01:18:32] It’s it’s literally when you, when you get a VC, it’s the same thing as opening up the gate for the steers and they’re all Longhorns and they’re coming.  That’s about it. And you ain’t got a horse to ride on. At that point, you’re just standing there waiting for them to come kind of how it works. it’s not, it’s not always fair and yeah, their legal problems down the line that sometimes happen, but that company is going to make a profit one way or another, even if they have to bully their way through it.

[01:18:58] And that’s, it it’s really bad. I, I, I don’t really appreciate the model that some VC firms take, not all of them are like that. when they just bullied their way through and then turn around and go, but we made profit.  But at the expense of what you you’ve known you’ve no culture anymore.

[01:19:15] I mean, when, and this is just, this is just my experience when Marriott bought out Ritz-Carlton, Ritz-Carlton used to have this thing called the green book training, which was probably the most employee empowering training had ever seen in my life. Marriott wasn’t even close to it at that. At that time. I don’t know what they are now.

[01:19:31] Well, Marriott took over shit, went out the window.  The employees couldn’t do what they were able and empowered to do previously. It just full culture switch.

[01:19:43] Mike: [01:19:43] Yeah, but that’s how it works. I mean, that’s just, that’s just the way it rolls. 

[01:19:45] Damon Burton: [01:19:45] I think it’s interesting that I always find it fascinating. How many people are obsessed with funding?

[01:19:50] Like I got an idea. I need money. I got an idea. I need money. No, you don’t go do the thing and figure it out yourself. 

[01:19:56] Mike: [01:19:56] Make the idea, at least get to at least get the prototype done. First. You remember the movie robots? 

[01:20:04] Damon Burton: [01:20:04].

[01:20:05] Mike: [01:20:05] Matthew McConaughey was the, was the main character. It was a, it was.a little robot who wasn’t an inventor wanted to go see big weld, big guy.

[01:20:13] Damon Burton: [01:20:13] I remember short circuit 

[01:20:15] Mike: [01:20:15] that’s even before that. So robot wasn’t animated 

[01:20:17] Damon Burton: [01:20:17] glasses before short circuit or short circuit, 

[01:20:19] Mike: [01:20:19] three seconds before robots, robots was early, earlier two thousands. I’ll send you a link to that too. 

[01:20:26] Damon Burton: [01:20:26] I’m working while you’re talking 

[01:20:27] Mike: [01:20:27] it’s so it’s a story of a, of a young robot who was.

[01:20:33] Trying to be an inventor, had invented his own little thing and just wanted to get it to the big guy. So the big guy could take it and mass produce it so it could help people. Okay. He wasn’t looking for funding. He was looking for support. Unfortunately, the drama and the story of it of course, is that the big guy was no longer there.

[01:20:49] Some other dude came in and was he was the antagonist, et cetera, et cetera, but he did it himself. He made the first one and did his best to perfect it before he even took it to the person. So he had a concept that he could prove. And like you said, there’s a lot of guys. Oh, I got this great idea

[01:21:09] Damon Burton: [01:21:09]  Nice. 

[01:21:10] Mike: [01:21:10] I can scratch it out on that can too, in fact, I’ve done it for three  businesses. 

[01:21:15] Two of them did. Okay. One failed, whatever. but money comes when you have something that actually works and can actually make a difference. Yeah, this same shit happens in real estate too. Everybody’s like, I got to button buyers.

[01:21:28] Let’s go, but go get a deal. You get a deal to buy us. They always show up. You will never miss when you have a deal sitting in the wings. 

[01:21:36] Damon Burton: [01:21:36]  It’s 

[01:21:37] Mike: [01:21:37] kind of how it works. I wish more people would understand that.  So what’s, what’s new. And what else is new is going on in your world, brother? 

[01:21:47] Damon Burton: [01:21:47].one thing that kind of stands out lately is doing what we’re doing now.

[01:21:52]  I’ve always kinda been a giver and a networker, but it was just kind of my nature. And then I would just kinda do it passively. And then I’ve really lately started to quantify not only obviously the financial impact is nice, but just the relationships and the last. Two months or so three months, I don’t know.

[01:22:14] I’m just all in on just freaking talking, like not going in and being like, how can, how can you make me money? How can I make you money? Whatever. It’s just like, what are you doing? How’s it going? What’s new. And it’s been super cool. I’ve met a lot of really great people. And I feel like, I feel like my network has like doubled or triple just in the last couple of weeks just from being like, what’s up.

[01:22:38] Mike: [01:22:38] What you, you bring up a really good point because there’s been a solid push for that, especially on like LinkedIn. Everybody’s like, well, you need to get to know people. And all the business sales guys are like, no, I need to sell. And I’m like, bro, you ain’t shit. And you keep pushing like that, dude.

[01:22:52] That’s just not how it’s working anymore. You need to talk to people. I’ve actually been getting, I’m still getting the here. I got like, even for my birthday, I got you a discount on this cool thing. And then I’m 

[01:23:03] Damon Burton: [01:23:03] like, so the favor that’s really. Lining their pockets. 

[01:23:08] Mike: [01:23:08] It’s like, dude, first off, I don’t know what you, secondly, how do  what you got?

[01:23:14] I need, we haven’t talked so it’s it’s.but there are a couple of people that are online that are. Teaching the right way to do this. Obviously they’re info products and their coaches, blah, blah, blah. I’m no coach. So what they got doesn’t work for 

[01:23:28] Damon Burton: [01:23:28] what I do. 

[01:23:29] Mike: [01:23:29]  It’s a little different what we do in fact we have to talk to people.

[01:23:34] We, we, we are relationships with business owners or decision-makers cannot be just sales and it’s not so much about the know you like you trust you thing. It’s we need to know whether or not we’re going to be able to do anything with them before we can do anything for 

[01:23:49] Damon Burton: [01:23:49] them. Well, in addition to that, like we were saying earlier, like, do I even want to work with them?

[01:23:55] Yeah, 

[01:23:56] Mike: [01:23:56] it do. I like I do. I do. I like you. And it’s funny. It’s funny when you throw that on somebody it’s like, what do you mean? Do you like me? I’m like, .

[01:24:04] Damon Burton: [01:24:04] well the making money, 

[01:24:07] Mike: [01:24:07] listen, I’m appreciative of Ben Franklin. Like anybody else? However, Ben, isn’t the, isn’t the personality I’m dealing with.

[01:24:13] It’s yours. And if, if we don’t get along, how long has that been? Franklin in last. 

[01:24:19] Damon Burton: [01:24:19] I’ve ha I’ve said no, a lot. I’m going to, as soon as we hang up, I’m gonna make another note with that other client. But yeah, 

[01:24:24] Mike: [01:24:24] I’m standing by you on that. If they’ve got any problems, don’t call me, I’ll tell them all day. 

[01:24:28] Damon Burton: [01:24:28] I’ll be like Michael said, no, 

[01:24:30] Mike: [01:24:30] Mike said 

[01:24:30] Damon Burton: [01:24:30] you’re up.

[01:24:31] I’m up? No, I had, I actually had a really unique experience when I was kind of in my company’s earlier days. I’ve always been very respectful and Aware of the importance of time with my wife and kids. And but it was harder to say, no, I would say no, but it was like more traumatizing when I would do it in the early days.

[01:24:53] But I remember this one time I went with a local guy. This was when my agency was smaller and we were doing more small local business. And he was a roofer and he’s like, can you. Can you just stop by my house? And I was like, sure, whatever I walk in and he’s got like trophy kills Oliver’s wall. And I’m like, what?

[01:25:16] And I walk in and I walked in and he locks the door behind me. 

[01:25:22] Mike: [01:25:22] Oh no, no, no, no, no, no, no. Yeah, no. I’m done 

[01:25:26] Damon Burton: [01:25:26] sitting on a couch. So instantly I’m like. Okay. Am I going to go through the window at the back door? And so I have this conversation and whatever, and we’re 

[01:25:35] Mike: [01:25:35] talking about your car safety deal, right?

[01:25:38] So you can just punch the window in case you don’t have to jp through it. 

[01:25:40] Damon Burton: [01:25:40] I actually, I have my, I have my concealed weapons permit. 

[01:25:44] Mike: [01:25:44] That’ll work too one.

[01:25:45] Damon Burton: [01:25:45] They had it with 

[01:25:46] Mike: [01:25:46] one in the ground was on your way out. You’ll be fine. 

[01:25:49] Damon Burton: [01:25:49] So it was super uncomfortable. It wasn’t like. I wasn’t literally, I was nervous as fuck.

[01:25:58] I’m sure. I didn’t feel like I didn’t really feel like. Harm was on the table, but it was all, it was awkward. And he was really intimidating, like he was very intentional in his words. And, and so at the end, like we’re like, cool, I’ll send you a proposal, whatever. Like we, we leave on kind of the middle ground terms.

[01:26:20] And as I’m walking out the door, thankfully he unlocked it and he’s like, he looks at the contract and he goes, is this your cell phone number? And I go, no, I go, I don’t give out my cell phone number. and he goes, you’re not that important. And I go, no, but my family is, and that was the end of that guy.

[01:26:43] Mike: [01:26:43]    I think. Sometimes some people begin to take their own. Self-importance a little too much. And I’ve actually, and I learned this from another old friend of mine, so I, I don’t have communication with anymore. I don’t know where he’s at. but it becomes it’s really interesting now being 49, I’ve done a lot in my life.

[01:27:11] I’ve done some things that I’ve, I’m, I’m proud of and some things that I’m not proud of. I’m not a flea on the back of society. What makes you so much better? What makes you think you’re even the dog or the cat, whatever out of whatever, the animal that gives you, the animal, the animal, but what makes you thinks you’re the actual animal?

[01:27:33] I mean, if you honestly believe you’re the beast, it’s going to be a real interesting wake up call. When the slap from the 500 pound gorilla comes down. And you finally realized you are not all you thought you were, you might want to reconsider your attitude because you’ll get a lot more and I’ll run all the cliches of the world.

[01:27:52] You’ll get a lot more hands with honey than you will with vinegar. 

[01:27:55] Damon Burton: [01:27:55]  And I mean, this guy, you could tell, he, he, he, he had found some he could obviously pay his bills and he had a couple crew members. And so it was broke by any means, but he was in, it 

[01:28:05] Mike: [01:28:05] doesn’t mean shit. 

[01:28:06] Damon Burton: [01:28:06] No, he was in. Th th th the, the house wasn’t respectable, you could whatever, but 

[01:28:15] Mike: [01:28:15] there’s, there’s a lot, I mean, cause I know guys, I got to some of them are in construction and they’re, and they’re, they’re rough around the edges.

[01:28:23] They’re not that bad, but they’re rough around the edges, but I don’t know how to get around that stuff. there’s, there’s a way to deal with it. But when you get to that level at that’s enough, 

[01:28:32] Damon Burton: [01:28:32] here’s, here’s the thing, here’s the thing that you’ve realized is that. It’s like level of experience in business.

[01:28:41] You can, you, you talked earlier about being an empath and like being able to detect how people are, and I agree. I can tell them 10 seconds on a phone call for the first time, if I’m even going to remotely consider working with somebody. But what you realize is. There there’s kind of like three levels.

[01:28:55] I’m just shooting at the hip here. Three, three levels of business experience like level one is new naive. Whatever, like trying to figure it out. Level two is a typical startup 

[01:29:12] Mike: [01:29:12] person. 

[01:29:13] Damon Burton: [01:29:13]   Then level two is I found some success now I’m arrogant now. I think I know at all. And then level. Okay, so now I’ve got a fourth level.

[01:29:23]  The third, third block 

[01:29:25] Mike: [01:29:25] I saw an up and coming 

[01:29:26] Damon Burton: [01:29:26] third levels, like. All right. I realize, I don’t know everything, but I’m going to figure it out, whatever. And then, and then like to working.  And then the fourth level is where you, where your sweet spot is your fourth level. Like the, the, the more successful people I know for the most part, as long as they’re not in a VC company.

[01:29:44] Right, right, right. The more successful people I know. The nicer and the more hble they are. 

[01:29:49] Mike: [01:29:49] So there’s a, there’s a onto that. And, and just to, just to prove the point, I’ve run into a couple of people who are very successful. I don’t get to talk to them that often, obviously we’re not in the same worlds, but having met them and knowing their stories and understanding where they came from.

[01:30:06] I also found the ones who struck it from nothing. Have a tendency to be even a little more hble. The ones that have reached level four that kind of had it handed to them. it can go either way. The ones that I do know my gosh, they are just the most awesome people to sit down with. And even if you don’t say anything, that their energy is just cool to be around.

[01:30:30] Damon Burton: [01:30:30] And it’s not cute. Just feel comfortable. 

[01:30:32] Mike: [01:30:32] It’s like, I’m just hanging out with a bud. it’s not, it’s not, I’m hanging out with mr. Richman who makes way more than I do. It’s it’s not this guys like me, and then I can hang out and have a DRAM and have a cigar or just chill with a cup of coffee.

[01:30:48] It’s it’s the ability to 

[01:30:51] Damon Burton: [01:30:51] sit no expectations 

[01:30:52] Mike: [01:30:52] there isn’t that. And that’s the best part. There is no expectation because when you sit with level two, 

[01:30:58] Damon Burton: [01:30:58] Yeah, what are you worth? 

[01:31:01] Mike: [01:31:01] It’s that’s, it’s the only kind of questions you’re ever going to hear it’s never going to be about, Hey, how’s how’s the fam.

[01:31:07] You’ll never hear that question. You’ll you’ll hear questions like I was looking at this this, this thing. What do you think about it? I don’t. my partners I’ll do that with, but it’s usually either it’s preempted with, are you all right?  Okay. I have a question or I have a question.

[01:31:25] Okay. Everything else? Good. What, what about 

[01:31:27] Damon Burton: [01:31:27] that is worse than I’m just giving the question. 

[01:31:32] Mike: [01:31:32]  At that level, it is. If you’re not, if you’re not taking a genuine interest with, and this goes both ways. Client or vendor, if you’re not taking a genuine interest in the person, why are you in that relationship?

[01:31:49] That’s free. Forgive the analogy, but it’s like going down to the red light district for a fun time. Dropping a hundred bucks and saying, well my wife always gets mad at me when I spend a hundred bucks. When I spend thousands on everyday, he’s spending a hundred dollars one time.

[01:32:07] I know that sounds wrong, but think about it. I mean, am I off? 

[01:32:12] Damon Burton: [01:32:12] No, I got I got one more minute. We’ll start wrapping up here. I got bounce in a minute, but I got one. I got one. I don’t remember where I heard this. This could have been something I read. It could have been a blog post. It could have been a video.

[01:32:24] This could be very well known. I don’t know. But I remember hearing the story about a guy that found he, he had a relationship with some super, super, super successful guy. So guy a had moderate success guy. B was. Freaking Jeff Bezos. And so the guy a eyes too, I’m pretty sure this is a public store or somewhere, but guy a goes to meet with guy B at his nice beachfront property.

[01:32:57] And he’s got every window and every door wide open with AC full-blast and guy . Why are you running the AC? When all the windows are open and he’s like, cause I like to feel the breeze like, fuck. Yeah, you do you man. You run that act and feel the breeze 

[01:33:22] Mike: [01:33:22] be nice and cool breeze too. Yeah, that’s awesome. 

[01:33:27] Damon Burton: [01:33:27] So I don’t know where I’m going with that.

[01:33:28] It’s just so, 

[01:33:29] Mike: [01:33:29]. what that’s called doing you at that’s really where that falls into and that’s, that’s what we should all be doing anyway. All right guys. So we’re going to wrap this up. We’re actually a little over our normal time. Man. Thanks for coming to hanging out on my birthday. I really appreciate you 

[01:33:41] Damon Burton: [01:33:41] old son of a bitch.

[01:33:43] Mike: [01:33:43] Yes, I I’m an old sob in the Dom. You can figure that one out later. wait till I hit 50 once he can, if you’re, if you’re not falling Damon, Damon Burton on LinkedIn, follow him. He posts them. Killer content. I’m, I’m usually reposting and stuff, as well as some other, some other great people that I follow.

[01:34:03].and, and if you, if you have you don’t have anything on your website, you’re not getting enough traffic.  Might want to pay a little bit of attention to what David talks about. Cause I’m kind of knows this stuff. 

[01:34:15] Damon Burton: [01:34:15]  And no sales pitch. I’m not sending you a funnel. I’m sending you to the landing page.

[01:34:19] They’ll send you, it 

[01:34:20] Mike: [01:34:20] just drops the fuck, the answers. He drops the answers and you go, if you don’t know it, you can always reach out, man. Those just stuff. if you can find them there, you can find them on SEO national, correct.com 

[01:34:32] Damon Burton: [01:34:32] SEO national.com. I post some entrepreneurial, not so, so all the SEO stuff, and as soon national.com, Damon burton.com also has some SEO stuff, but it’s also 

[01:34:43] Mike: [01:34:43] just that’s the entrepreneur side.

[01:34:44]  And that’s also a good contact guys. If you, if. If anything, this is a new friend that I’m very thankful for. and I look forward to having you again, when we get another update after another round of insane shit happening. I’m sure. 

[01:34:56] Damon Burton: [01:34:56]   Okay. Let me throw it, let me throw it out. Your listeners one freebie.

[01:34:59].I did this, this book.  You got the book. 

[01:35:03] Mike: [01:35:03] Yes, I do. I got it. It’s.

[01:35:06] Damon Burton: [01:35:06] the, if they want to snag it up, I have a free copy, a free SEL book.com. Same thing. There’s there’s no upsells. It’s real on the thank you page and I’ll invite you to a Facebook group, but that’s it. 

[01:35:19] Mike: [01:35:19] I lied. It’s right here. 

[01:35:21] Damon Burton: [01:35:21] It’s cheating.

[01:35:21] There it is 

[01:35:22] Mike: [01:35:22] with wisdom, with an autograph, 

[01:35:25] Damon Burton: [01:35:25] with an autograph with spirit. I knew he wasn’t the audit side. 

[01:35:28] Mike: [01:35:28] Yes, it was. And then of course, and of course, Trent gets on on the birthday wishes. Did it? That was awesome. 

[01:35:34] Damon Burton: [01:35:34] That was funny. I 

[01:35:36] Mike: [01:35:36] so enjoyed that. That was classic. I got to talk to him again too. All right, guys, so far.

[01:35:41] For my myself coffee, my four day Burton. Thanks for listening. Stay up, stay safe, stay healthy and live. Take care of each other shell for now.

[01:35:58] For more information on Java chat visit www.java chat, podcast.com. You’ve been listening to coffee with Mike on Java chat tune in weekly to this podcast. For the next episode, you can also download or subscribe today on your favorite podcast platform. A production of Oasis media group, LLC. Located in LA.

[01:36:20] Las Vegas, Nevada copyright 2019, all rights reserved.

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