Susan De Lorenzo- Overcoming Adversity

Youtube Link: https://youtu.be/_T0KCdL2VvQ

[00:00:27] Mike: [00:00:27] Hey everybody. Welcome back to Java chat and got coffee with Mike here. And I get the wonderful, distinct pleasure of sitting down with Susan de Lorenzo, Susan. Welcome to the party. 

[00:00:38] Susan De Lorenzo: [00:00:38] Hey Mike. Thanks so much. Great to be here. 

[00:00:40] Mike: [00:00:40] Awesome, awesome. Uh, where you’re located, where. 

[00:00:44] Susan De Lorenzo: [00:00:44] I’m in Rhode Island, just outside of Providence.

[00:00:46] Mike: [00:00:46] Oh my goodness. Way out on the East coast. How’s the, uh, did it start snowing yet? 

[00:00:50] Susan De Lorenzo: [00:00:50] It’s coming tonight coming to that eight to 12 inches where it is. My husband is trying to fire up the snowblowers. We actually 

[00:00:59] Mike: [00:00:59] works. Test it now. Dear test it. Now. I’m like, I’m glad I live in the high desert. It’s just high enough that it stays cool, but not, well, then we did get snow just recently.

[00:01:11] So I guess I can’t say that, 

[00:01:12] Susan De Lorenzo: [00:01:12] but maybe not too much though. Huh? 

[00:01:14] Mike: [00:01:14] None of my side of town it’s it happens up on the higher end, which is fine by me. I’m good with that. That’s good. It wasn’t. What do you do? Where are you from? Give us a little bit of history about you. 

[00:01:23] Susan De Lorenzo: [00:01:23] Yeah. Well, I like to start off by saying that I’m a survivor of invasive breast cancer whose marriage fell apart.

[00:01:30] Right afterwards. It landed me the one, two punch into a new life that I wouldn’t trade for anything. So that started me on the road to become a life coach, a speaker, a writer. I’m putting out a book coming out next year, called pulling the gems from adversity. All about leveraging. Whatever’s happened, whatever your dark night of the soul is your massive, uh, you know, brick upside the head, whatever it is, 

[00:02:00] Mike: [00:02:00] almost everybody has at least one or two 

[00:02:03] Susan De Lorenzo: [00:02:03] and not using it as the reason you’re staying in your story.

[00:02:06] So that’s all about that. And that’s very much, Mike. About what you and I are going to be talking about today, overcoming failure, not using failure as something that keeps you stuck in a story or in a place where you never go for it. You just are in a place where you think this is the worst thing that’s ever happened, and you don’t even go for it anymore.

[00:02:25] Mike: [00:02:25] How did, how did the whole cancer thing start? I mean, that was, I mean, you’re bumping along in life and all of a sudden, Hey, you got cancer. I mean, what, how did that all unfold? 

[00:02:35] Susan De Lorenzo: [00:02:35] You know, it’s funny. My mother is also a breast cancer survivor. I got it. The same age that she was diagnosed and had even had the mastectomy on the same breast that she had.

[00:02:47] Mike: [00:02:47] Talk about a cup carbon. Copy. God, that was so one that I would want, of course, but I’m fully cold. 

[00:02:53] Susan De Lorenzo: [00:02:53] No. And I had a, uh, an 18 month old baby boy at the time. And, uh, Yeah. So it was just a wild ride. It was a wild ride that kicked me out of a life. I was quite resigned to and unhappy with. I wouldn’t have told you that if you would see me walk into the office, walking into anything, a party, I looked as happy as heck.

[00:03:13] You know, I, yeah, I had the game face, you know, I said, wow. You know, I made the bed to got a lawyer in it, all those things you say to keep yourself strong and going, and then cancer was like everything and feeling. Has to go somewhere and it went right into my body in the form of cancer. This is my conviction on this.

[00:03:34] And, and so it really was just that launch pad out of a life that I really was not happy in. 

[00:03:42] Mike: [00:03:42] What were you doing back then? I mean, obviously you weren’t a life coach at that point. Well, what 

[00:03:45] Susan De Lorenzo: [00:03:45] is that? Oh, I call it my corporate cubicle job. I was in the financial industry and I worked with great people. I loved my people, but I was bored.

[00:03:55] I, I just was, you know, It’s those golden handcuffs that the wage slave feeling. And, um, that’s the other thing. It’s just not that, uh, once I came right out of cancer, I got rid of the corporate job, but it led me on the path to really analyzing my happiness. What I want, uh, cancer was the wake up call.

[00:04:17] Guess what? You know, it’s not a guaranteed life till you’re 80 years old. And if you’re lucky you get a few more, Hey, guess what? I’m mortal, right? 

[00:04:28] Mike: [00:04:28] And cancer never shows up with a bouquet of roses. Let’s just say it. 

[00:04:30] Susan De Lorenzo: [00:04:30] No, no. So that was, that was the big, big wake up call it. I, from that moment I got the clean, your cancer-free a report.

[00:04:40] I was on a mission to make myself happy. And I started with my marriage. I said, wow, I got to get this thing back on track. Like we have to, but I’m going to bring it up. And it was at that point that my mate at the time. I know, I said, you know, we just got to get back to where we were. This is not working right now.

[00:04:57] And he’s nodding his head as if he understands. And I’m, I’m expecting this. Yes. So I know what you mean. Um, and he said, actually, I need to live alone. Oh, geez. And Mike, at this time I barely had any hair on my head. I’d only been a few months out of treatment. And I was like, come again.

[00:05:17] Mike: [00:05:17]  Oh, I’m sorry. 

[00:05:19] Susan De Lorenzo: [00:05:19] You were saying, you were saying later, later that night I ran up to the bathroom, like, Oh, I’m yelling at God.

[00:05:27] I’m like, you gotta be kidding me. Can I just have a year off for crying out loud? And uh, no, I couldn’t. I couldn’t have a year off. And, um, and I started to go, Whoa. Hey, I think the idea of me not being married to this guy might be okay. And what if there’s something better all the way around for even both of us?

[00:05:51] I mean, obviously he wasn’t happy either, so, um, that was the journey I took and I ended up, um, maybe less than a year after he actually left, um, the marital home. I met a great guy and didn’t end up turning into a marriage, but it showed me, wow, this is what love feels like. This is what fun feels like.

[00:06:11] This is cool. 

[00:06:13] Mike: [00:06:13] The third one, they had that, that whole, that I don’t know if you’ve seen that article, but there’s three kinds of love. There’s the young love, which is the first love. Then there’s the, I think it’s the right love, but it’s not right. And then there’s the third love, which is the one that actually shows up and goes, Oh, that’s what it’s supposed to be.

[00:06:27] Susan De Lorenzo: [00:06:27] Yeah, Mike, you just described it. That is exactly right. And that’s the guy I’m married to now and it’s, you know? Yeah. The second one was like, ah, it’s almost for genetic, you know, it’s fun. It’s good.

[00:06:40] Mike: [00:06:40]  And then this one was like a couple of years, but I think we’re good now. 

[00:06:43] Susan De Lorenzo: [00:06:43] No, this is not going to be it.

[00:06:45] Yeah. And then just having that guy who finally comes in, um, puts his arms around your, like, you feel like you’re home. You know, that’s where I’m at now. 

[00:06:55] Mike: [00:06:55] And that’s what everybody wants. But for some weird reason, everybody’s in a bloody rush to get it. And then they miss it. 

[00:07:02] Susan De Lorenzo: [00:07:02] That’s right. They’re picking up time with something that isn’t it, but it doesn’t mean we’re not going to learn to grow from it.

[00:07:08] There’s always something, every relationship, even if it’s not this 

[00:07:13] Mike: [00:07:13] well, and that’s the, that’s the fun part is what is it? Do you. No that you don’t want, you know, the, not this, um, and learning from that. I mean, again, since we’re talking about that and you, you, you went through, I can’t imagine having to just have that happen.

[00:07:30] Sorry. Yeah. That too, to me, that the, the older ones. Wow. What a shit. But anyway, I’m from Kansas to divorce to what happened after that. 

[00:07:40] Susan De Lorenzo: [00:07:40] Yeah, then I lost a job if you know, not right away, but I’m here to say no matter tell gentlemen the hits, just keep coming. 

[00:07:50] Actually in my book, I’ve talk about resilience because it’s not like I gave at the office with cancer and divorce, and now I’m scot-free for the rest of my life and nothing ever happening.

[00:08:01] I mean, I got pneumonia a year later, a tree fell on my house, almost hit the front door. Um, And then, yeah. 

[00:08:08] Mike: [00:08:08] So somewhere in this, I’m hearing Colin mockery and Ryan styles from whose line is in any way, doing good, doing a skid on this whole thing. That you’re yeah, you probably could.

[00:08:17] Susan De Lorenzo: [00:08:17] Yeah, there was a lot of questioning going on, like three at my front door.

[00:08:24] Mike: [00:08:24] I wonder what that means. 

[00:08:27] Susan De Lorenzo: [00:08:27] All right. Okay. Now what now? What. Oh, I’ll tell you the ultimate was not listening to what I knew to be true. Like, remember I said it was boring in that job, but guess what? Um, same with my marriage. I got kicked out of the marriage. I got kicked out of the job and, um, and it led me to, um, just being on a Facebook page that said, would you like to be a speaker, a teacher, a coach.

[00:08:53] And meanwhile, I’ve been starting this book over and over again, Mike. And I said, yeah, And I clicked on it and I spoke to somebody site, you know, who works with the certification program. And I knew I wanted to do it and it scared me. Hey, you know, Mike 

[00:09:11] that’s so, you know, and, um, yeah, long story short, then I got another job, another corporate cubicle job.

[00:09:19] And, um, and, and then started doing coach sort of a tick certification. Got that. Started coaching clients while doing this job, building up my website, writing blogs, starting to go on. Uh, podcast. And then after all of that, I saw, I had an outline for an even better book. I wanted to write the, I can’t believe this all happened to me book, which was the first book that’s called a mental dump.

[00:09:49] That’s my mental. And then guess what? And then, uh, uh, yes. So this one is a teaching 

[00:09:59] Mike: [00:09:59] and then, Oh my gosh. 

[00:10:01] Susan De Lorenzo: [00:10:01] Yes, 

[00:10:02] Mike: [00:10:02] but so you, so you, out of all of that, all of a sudden, the new outline forms and you’re, you’re taking a look at it from the standpoint of. There’s a structure. 

[00:10:13] Susan De Lorenzo: [00:10:13] There’s a, how do I mean there’s gold in them Hills.

[00:10:17] That is the message of this book. I I’m I’ve got going on is pulling the gems from adversity in that mock and the mud and all of that are insights, wisdom. Self-reflection so you don’t want to leave? Yeah. We want our head for the Hills as soon as we can win. Crummy things like cancer are over, but you’re missing an absolutely great opportunity.

[00:10:42] So you’re not going to keep the house, you know, the tree on the house and everything else. Yeah. Are bad things going to still happen yet. It’s who you become in the process that makes it. Like, I want to say, you know, water off a Duck’s back, but almost like that where it’s like, okay, I got what I need to handle.

[00:10:59] Whatever comes my way now. And for me, it was learning who I was at work in the marriage, who am I? I had the worst self-esteem. Yeah, I was everybody’s pleaser. I didn’t even know the word codependent. 

[00:11:20] Mike: [00:11:20] Yeah. I liked that one too. Yeah. 

[00:11:22] Susan De Lorenzo: [00:11:22] Yeah. I grew up in a home with a depressed parent and I met a guy just very much, probably even a little worse than this and that.

[00:11:30] I just inserted myself like a puzzle piece, but I knew I never had to do that again. When I saw my part in it, I didn’t have to be that. Person anymore. I could be that person for me. And what was important to me. 

[00:11:46] Mike: [00:11:46] I think a lot of people miss that part, you know, when, when they’re. When they’re in that position.

[00:11:51] I know I, I did, I was in a, in a relationship that was like that. And, and it was, it was one of those deals that took me about two and a half, three years to finally look back and go, well, that was kind of dumb. I shouldn’t have done that. I mean, that was, that was a worthless shot. I mean, both of us are good people, right?

[00:12:08] But we both ended up becoming co-dependent because of the situations in our life that were going on at the time,

[00:12:13] Susan De Lorenzo: [00:12:13] any of those patterns were just chatter in a pattern. 

[00:12:16] Mike: [00:12:16] It was still total pattern. And it’s like, again, it took like three years to, to figure it out. But once it did, I was like, Ooh, yeah. Should probably not do that again.

[00:12:28] Um, And since then, just, just not, you know, if I see a situation like that, it’s kind of like, Hmm, no. 

[00:12:35] Susan De Lorenzo: [00:12:35] Oh yeah. Red flag. What happens to people who don’t don’t look at themselves, what do we see happen? They end up in the same bloody relationship with a different face, you know, diff they’re dating a different face, but they’re both playing these similar parts again.

[00:12:52] You know, and we can see it in other people a lot more easier than we can see it in ourselves. And that’s where I think big work and why I do the work of life coaching is we look at ourselves so we can stop the old play and put it on a better platform. That’s going to take us somewhere. And really make us feel, I want to say expansive or alive, you know, not, uh, same stuff, different day.

[00:13:22] Mike: [00:13:22] It’s so interesting that humans have eyes that can judge the world, but cannot judge themselves. I heard that once from a mentor once it’s like, if you could take your eyes out and turn them around, what would you see? 

[00:13:36] Susan De Lorenzo: [00:13:36] Right. It’s like, we’re in the frame of the picture. We can’t see it. Exactly. We’re in the frame.

[00:13:41] Mike: [00:13:41] That would be the point of having a coach. That would be the point of having a mentor or somebody at least some, uh, an honest friend that can call you out on your shit when you happen to be. Portraying it, you know, it’s um, I have a couple of good friends like that, 

[00:13:54] Susan De Lorenzo: [00:13:54] by the way. Yeah. We need them. 

[00:13:56] Mike: [00:13:56] Yeah. You gotta have at least one, you know, somebody that, you know, we’ll let you talk.

[00:14:01] And then all of a sudden I’ll look at you and go, you know, you’re full of it. Right. 

[00:14:05] Susan De Lorenzo: [00:14:05] Are you hearing what you’re saying? 

[00:14:07] Mike: [00:14:07] You know, that’s fully reflect that back to you. Let me, let me lay out what you just basically said, blah, blah, blah, bullshit, blah. Now would you care to rephrase all of that? 

[00:14:18] Susan De Lorenzo: [00:14:18] You put flowers all around.

[00:14:19] If it’s right 

[00:14:20] Mike: [00:14:20] there, it’s still stinks like poop, but it’s, you know, in case you were wondering 

[00:14:27] Susan De Lorenzo: [00:14:27] yeah. Yep. 

[00:14:29] Mike: [00:14:29] You came through all of that and then obviously you, you found a new calling, which is awesome. Um, When you, when you, when you start started doing this, what was that like that process of learning to be a life coach in the process of, of, of.

[00:14:50] Facilitating people unpacking their shit, having to put it down as actual fertilizer instead. 

[00:14:55] Susan De Lorenzo: [00:14:55] Exactly. So I felt confident in what I knew, especially from my experience and my training, but there’s this real, um, comfort zone you’re pushing out of. Right. I’m pushing out of I’m speaking in public. You know, I’m, I’m doing workshops.

[00:15:12] Um, I’m hopping on a radio show. I’m writing, I’m starting to write articles. I never saw myself as a writer. I was married to a writer. I had friends who were writers, so that meant I wasn’t a writer. And then finally somebody saying, no, you’re good.

[00:15:25] Mike: [00:15:25] Yeah. 

[00:15:28] Susan De Lorenzo: [00:15:28] They owned it. I finally owned it and didn’t worry. I didn’t have to please, everybody.

[00:15:32] I had a, um, Somebody in mind. And I know you do too. You have someone in mind that you’re talking to. You can’t talk to the whole world. I know. I want to reach people who may have given up or think that this is as good as it gets. Oh, well, I tried and that’s it. You know, that’s my person. 

[00:15:51] Mike: [00:15:51] I can tell you. I can tell you right now.

[00:15:53] That’s the latest generation. Yeah. And the only, the, the only reason I say that is because I see it more and more, um, because obviously, like I have the agency, we work with interns and I’ve had a couple of conversations with different ones. Um, and I’ve noticed that. They’re so in it, obviously they’re just beginning to get their life, you know, going they’re in school, they’re in college, you know, finals just finished.

[00:16:17] Everybody’s stressed out, et cetera, et cetera. And we don’t know what life situations are also going on around that. But they’re the ones that don’t have the experience of wisdom that we do. And when I ask them questions around certain things, you know, the obvious it goes blank. And I expected a lot of times.

[00:16:33] When I ask a question that I don’t get very many answers, I, you know, and you have to poke and prod them a book like this, what your, what you’ve written or about to release, or at least the kinds of things that you’re coaching them on. These are the, these are the pieces of wisdom that most people never grow up with.

[00:16:50] Um, it’s just not a part of the curriculum of, of teaching, you know, about life. You know, I mean, even when we were growing up, you and I, both what we were, what we were told as kids, you can’t fail. You can’t fail class. You can’t fail. You get enough of your failure, your failure in life, your failure in this.

[00:17:04] And it’s like, wow, dude, really, 

[00:17:07] Susan De Lorenzo: [00:17:07] it’s a lineage of poor beliefs and patterns. And what else could we have to take it from until we’re out there. And, um, and we’re on our own, you know, Mike, I have a very young client, I want to say she’s like 21, 22. And how wise is this young lady to go and get a life coach?

[00:17:30] Right now? She just got a job of her dreams because she didn’t let limit. She wanted to, we all, do we believe in limitations? We think, well, that’s, that’s it. Stop sign. Yeah. But having a partner in believing like that at the seed, the wisdom that’s come out of her mouth. She went through quite a nasty high school experience and so forth that I think brought her to her knees to a point where, um, this has made her.

[00:18:00] Reach for, you know, the life preserver, if you feel like you’re drowning. And, um, I, I can’t tell you the feeling I get when I see the lights go on, right. Even over a phone call or somebody gets it and they’re going for it. And they know. And in this case that I’m their partner in believing. I know what I know, and I see it in there.

[00:18:24] You know how you can see it in somebody else and they can’t see it in themselves. And that is the absolute rocket fuel for me to keep doing this. 

[00:18:33] Mike: [00:18:33] That’s amazing. That’s awesome. Well, that kind of is going to lead us into the next section of what we’re doing. We’re going to take a short 30 second break. Uh, and then when we come back, we’ll talk about what inspires.

[00:18:42] She kind of started touching on it already, so we’ll get right back into it. We’ll be back in a short 30 and we’re back here.

***

 Java chat, hanging out with Susan. DeLorenzo a life coach, author, speaker. Um, Life changer completely, both personally. And of course, as a coach for others, uh, we were talking a little bit, she started leaning into what, what motivates her and what inspires her.

[00:19:04] And you guys all know that’s the second section of this, this, uh, this particular podcast. So what motivates Susan de Lorenzo? What gets you, what, what, what moves you? 

[00:19:16] Susan De Lorenzo: [00:19:16] The people I’m going to speak to and the people I’m reaching. I feel them because I was them. Hmm. I really just settled in my life at such a low place.

[00:19:27] Had such a low opinion of myself. I used my life as evidence of what a loser. I was in an unhappy marriage, a job. I was bored. I just kept looking around me thinking, this is the validation that this is you, Susan. You know, too bad, you know? So just smack that smile back on your face and go to work and do this now.

[00:19:49] Yeah. I had a beautiful child that was like the light of my life and he’s still around. I’m happy to say. Um, but yeah, that was no, Mike, I don’t think it breaks my heart to see people like that because I was them. And I know you don’t have to stay like that. And so just pulling it apart to know. There nobody’s coming to save us.

[00:20:14] Mike, we got to save ourselves. There’s lots of help around there. There’s lots of resources, but we have to make the decision, making the decision, not waiting to see what happens. I used to wish and pray and wait for miracles. All of that. Well, we are the miracle. We are the miracle. Warney when we ignite the decision and we say, what if there’s more, what if I don’t even know what it looks like, but I know it’s not this.

[00:20:46] And then we start pulling the breadcrumbs and we talk about in coaching, uh, the two spiritual signals, longing and discontent. And over the years, a lot of us pushed down the longing. We make excuses over why we can’t do this. We already screwed up. That’s out the window. Right. But guess what? Never goes away.

[00:21:07] Discontent, discontent keeps going. This isn’t me. How much longer do we have to do this? You know, and, and we numb ourselves. I numbed myself with food for, from teenage years into, uh, God, almost 30 years. And it was a horrible addiction. And it, you would never know, again, I may have been like 10 pounds overweight.

[00:21:32] You wouldn’t know that I was medicating myself this way. And, and so everybody has a way of not looking at the monster in the closet. And that was my way. And it took a lot. Well, I took that brick upside, the head cancer and divorced, uh, to free me into saying, okay, the house has been cleaned. Where are you going to put it in the house now?

[00:22:00] Mike: [00:22:00] Why does it take so much though? I mean, you would think that humans were intelligent enough to recognize that when they’re, when they’re in a situation like that, that they’ve, they’ve walked into. They’ve walked into their own doldrums. They’ve, they’ve stuck themselves in their own swamp. And it’s kind of like, why are you still there?

[00:22:19] How do you not see this? 

[00:22:21] Susan De Lorenzo: [00:22:21] It’s what you, and I said a little bit earlier, Mike, these family patterns and you inherit them and it’s almost like you’re given a script and you play this part and it isn’t until the lights come on or they’re knocked out of you for a little while. And you get a new choice, you get to choose again.

[00:22:43] And the imitation is always there for all of us. Right. And some people don’t have to go through a massive upheaval in their lives, but there’s something about them that either finishes them off. Or you hear how many stories like mine? Are there a gazillion? Yeah. 

[00:23:05] Mike: [00:23:05]  With no with no short supply of new ones.

[00:23:10] I keep imagining that the ones that finally reached at that bottom spot, it’s like, uh, you think of, um, we were just sitting there chatting a little bit about how people are given a script and they have a tendency to read it and play it. You know, like as if, as if that was the director of their life.

[00:23:30] And I S I kind of, I had asked the question of why does it take like a brick in the head? And of course, my first thing is thinking about some Italian guy from New York with a brick going, Hey, buddy, here, take one for me. And it’s the only way that you’re actually gonna wake up and just like, yeah, it’s probably not a good idea.

[00:23:50] I need to do something different. I don’t understand why humans. To this day. I still don’t understand. I should ask Jordan Peterson. I’m sure he’d probably have a wonderful explanation of this. Um, I don’t understand why people would rather sit in that space, reading the script they were handed. Rather than realizing no, actually you’re the writer.

[00:24:14] No, actually you’re the director. No one told you to do this. At first you were told because you were being raised once you were released. I don’t think half of it is, is that, and I could be wrong. Parents don’t have that conversation with their kids. Go on. Whatever it is that we taught you. It was enough to get you by the rest of it.

[00:24:34] You figure out 

[00:24:35] Susan De Lorenzo: [00:24:35] yeah, we did the best we could. We weren’t perfect. 

[00:24:38] Mike: [00:24:38] No, nope. We weren’t perfect. We did what we could with what we have. You have the potential to do 10 times better than we did. So go do it. 

[00:24:46] Susan De Lorenzo: [00:24:46] Yeah. Wouldn’t you love that conversation, Mike, 

[00:24:49] Mike: [00:24:49] I’ve already had, I’ve already had it with my son. I’m just way more talented than I am.

[00:24:54] You have a lot more skills than I do. You do things on the computer that I couldn’t even begin to think, you know, uh, Why are you still here? Kind of thing. I didn’t tell him that. I was just like, why are you staying? Why are you still hanging out? 

[00:25:08] Susan De Lorenzo: [00:25:08] Is that thing you were saying about young people though?

[00:25:10] Wasn’t it? And, and I remembered it. You were saying this, Mike, I’m sure you had something like this. I knew I was in a bad marriage. I knew I wasn’t crazy about my job. That would bubble up. Know what I’m saying? Discontent. Doesn’t leave you alone. No, it doesn’t. But I. Hated the idea of having to do something about it.

[00:25:30] I already had a baby. I’m like, Oh my God, I can’t, you know, and I would have fantasies about how somehow this guy would just kind of go away somewhere and I’d go on and have this, you know, I didn’t, it wasn’t like I wished him any ill. I just magically 

[00:25:45] Mike: [00:25:45] Hey to, could you just leave for a while? Just come back in a few years.

[00:25:48] It’d be fine. Just, I mean it’s okay. No, go ahead. That’s fine. 

[00:25:51] Susan De Lorenzo: [00:25:51] Yeah, just some magic was supposed to happen. I didn’t have to do anything. 

[00:25:56] Mike: [00:25:56] They forgot me. 

[00:25:59] Susan De Lorenzo: [00:25:59] Right. So, yeah, I knew. That there were problems. I didn’t want to address it. It was just too much. And guess what I say when you don’t do it often, the universe does it for you.

[00:26:14] Mike: [00:26:14] Oh yeah. It’ll it’ll it’ll it comes in a nicely wrapped with a bow. 

[00:26:22] Susan De Lorenzo: [00:26:22] That’s what I call it. Adversity. A gifting crappy wrapping paper. Yeah. 

[00:26:26] Mike: [00:26:26] Yeah, exactly. Okay. Do you remember the Brown wrapping paper that we used to put around our, our, our books? For makeshift covers. Yeah. Wrinkled tattered beat up by the end of the year.

[00:26:37] Susan De Lorenzo: [00:26:37] Yeah. 

[00:26:37] Mike: [00:26:37] That kind of scribbling, 

[00:26:38] Susan De Lorenzo: [00:26:38] scribbling, scribble pens 

[00:26:40] Mike: [00:26:40] all over it. Yeah. And all kinds of, and all kinds of crap notes about, I don’t like Suzie. 

[00:26:46] Susan De Lorenzo: [00:26:46] Yeah. This is 

[00:26:47] Mike: [00:26:47] all of those weird things that we used to that 

[00:26:50] Susan De Lorenzo: [00:26:50] or the, yeah, the doodles. Yeah, 

[00:26:52] Mike: [00:26:52] sure. Yeah. I remember that. I used to do my best doodle the Tasmanian devil when he was spinning that wasn’t, you know, that was the easiest one.

[00:27:02] Susan De Lorenzo: [00:27:02] I used to do thing from the Adams family. 

[00:27:09] Mike: [00:27:09] All right, we’re going way off topic, but what is in an odd kind of messed up? It’s relevant.

[00:27:18] It’s all over the place. No one knows what the hell you were doing half the time. You didn’t know what you were doing, but that’s, but that’s, and I think once we’ve, once we’ve taken stock of the fact that. That’s what we were doing. Um, it may become a little easier to take a step back and go. Hmm. Yeah. I don’t like that gift.

[00:27:38] I need to change it. 

[00:27:39] Susan De Lorenzo: [00:27:39] Yeah, I’ve noticed that young people don’t want the same jobs that we used to, you know, those corporate cubicle jobs, the call center jobs, or they cannot even staff enough people in those places half the time. And I think we’re changing the way the world works because of the young people.

[00:27:58] Mike: [00:27:58] That’s a, that’s a part of it. Um, I do know for a fact that call centers have high turnover rates anyway. Um, they’re horrible. You put a gen Z or millennial in there. They don’t do too good. There are a few that do don’t get me wrong, but it’s fairly rare. You’re right. Um, I know a few call centers. We have a couple here in Nevada and.

[00:28:17] And the turnover rates and sane, and that’s just where the customer service one, that’s not even for the ones that do the selling. 

[00:28:22] Susan De Lorenzo: [00:28:22] So, well, think about the whole process, Mike, those horrible, and we’re assimilating, we’re going to take the test this way, or we’re going to do this so we can be good little workers when we come out, you know, and yeah.

[00:28:34] Yeah. So thank God people are going, Hey, this isn’t working. I don’t want to do it. Yeah, 

[00:28:41] Mike: [00:28:41] it’s, it’s funny because, and with technology being so much better, um, than it used to be when we were kids, I, you know, there’s so many more opportunities to, to do the same things that these phone rooms have done in the past, uh, without being invasive, uh, and hilariously enough, I still get phone calls, you know, the, the telemarketing and all that kind of stuff.

[00:29:02] And it’s like, I didn’t know, you guys are still doing this. 

[00:29:05] Susan De Lorenzo: [00:29:05] You guys are still here. 

[00:29:07] Mike: [00:29:07] It’s like, where’s this whole room, 

[00:29:09] you know? And it’s like, you, you kinda, you kind of want to like, cause there’s only a few people that actually have them, right. At least here in Nevada. And we kinda know them and they’re, they, they do different things.

[00:29:21] Like the, of course there’s the big tech and the med, the med guys, we know where they’re located and stuff. And it’s just like, why are you guys still open? I mean, there’s so much. Oh, it’s the personal touch. What, not by what I look out of your walls and the amount of the amount of restrictions that you put on people sitting in a cubicle with a headset on their head telling them this is what you say.

[00:29:45] Susan De Lorenzo: [00:29:45] Oh yeah. It’s like being in a kennel. 

[00:29:48] Mike: [00:29:48] You’ve completely taken away any possible creativity that, that human has being able to be shared. 

[00:29:57] Susan De Lorenzo: [00:29:57] So let’s say we’re breaking out of this kind of a mold right. Of the way people work and who we are, because that’s very safe. Isn’t it? Paycheck, you get benefits and all this other stuff 

[00:30:08] Mike: [00:30:08] up until you get fired.

[00:30:09] Susan De Lorenzo: [00:30:09] Yeah. Uh, but what happens when you decide it’s not going to be this, I gotta do something differently. You gotta be willing. To fall on your face to find out what’s going to work is you’re going to find a lot of things that don’t work, and there’s gonna need to be some real Bay, bravery and openness, and starting to get clear about what it would look like for you to be happy in work.

[00:30:36] And it might mean you’re going to have to create that job. It might mean that you see a need for something. And a lot of times we’re told you’re too young, you’re too old. You know, you gotta be at this level in life before you even go for the big stuff. Right. But a lot of people learn by falling on their face.

[00:30:56] A lot of people have big failures and, and if they don’t quit, they’re. They’re going to find some gold. There it’s very much like adversity, 

[00:31:06] Mike: [00:31:06] right? Certainly enough to add onto your point. Um, huge failures don’t mean huge wins. Huge failures could mean mediocre wins, but enough that you’ve gotten forward and off of where you were.

[00:31:21] Mike: [00:31:21] Right. And I think a lot of, I think a lot of, I think a lot of people. When we start talking like that, people start going all big. Fail means big win. Ah, no, no, not really. No, it means it means 

[00:31:35] the tiny fail post-its the tiny fail could be the huge win. You know, and even then, so what’s a huge win. If you’re only thinking about finance, then you’re missing the point of what a win can be.

[00:31:47] Susan De Lorenzo: [00:31:47] Oh yeah. It’s it’s doing work. You would do for free. That’s the win for me. It’s just that feeling of, I, whoever wants to read what I write or hear what I have to say and feels the benefit of it. In some way, I made that, that that’s a win and getting to do what I get to do is the winner. And so what would that look like for who’s listening right now?

[00:32:12] What would that look like for you? And it may be, you know, no, maybe it’s the breadcrumbs where you got to keep a little book journal or a note in your notes, on your phone, in your right. You’ve got it. You’ve got to work with people. Um, you know, got to be writing, gotta be face-to-face or I don’t want to see anybody.

[00:32:29] I want to be a little room. 

[00:32:31] Mike: [00:32:31] Right. Yeah, you got, you got people that are, I need to be out in nature. You got people that are, I need to be completely focused on my computer or I need, like you said, I need to be writing. Um, I was a musician for 15 years. I had a blast when I was playing, but I didn’t like all the stuff around it, which is one of the reasons I stopped, but it’s like, and I have a guitar.

[00:32:53] So I do play every once in a while. I’ll pull it up. Just mess around. Yeah. But the idea of being able to like do this. Share this kind of information, the idea of being able to help somebody through a situation, those are the things that motivate us. And that motivates a lot of the younger kids too. I think you brought up a good point when you said is both the young and the old that are, that are worried about whether or not it’s actually going to happen.

[00:33:16] Um, only if you put effort forth. And only if you decide to do something, if you decide otherwise you’ve decided against it. 

[00:33:27] Susan De Lorenzo: [00:33:27] Uh, and I think, remember there are no rules. We think there are rules around this. Yeah. And it’s really circumstantial. Isn’t it? And, and, and other people imposing their beliefs on us, whether we were too young or too old or whatever it is.

[00:33:42] Yeah. And, uh, you know, your, your music analogy made me think about remembers a musician and you’re just learning to play the piano, right. Or you’re just learning, play the guitar, whatever you’re learning your instrument on. Do you think you’re going to go out there as a piano player and play rock Monona for whatever that is for you?

[00:33:58] You know, Gershwin, whatever it is, right? No, you got to start with something like Michael row, the boat or shorts or something. Right. And, and yet what happens? We want to play the next thing, the next thing, the next thing. Yeah. Just to keep playing the same old song. Well, that’s how it is. In your work life.

[00:34:18] That’s how it should be. Not these new goals of, I will now master Excel 5.0, if you did. And you loved that. That’s great. Okay. No, no criticism there. That’s real for you. But, um, what we’re saying is yet there’s a next level and there’s the next level. So let’s take the full ride and remember it’s nothing to judge ourselves on that you can’t play Gershwin yet or whatever.

[00:34:42] Right. You’re just mastering the next level. And not being humiliated. 

[00:34:48] Mike: [00:34:48] Yeah. That’s another thing. Um, I think a lot of people are afraid of, they’re still, they’re still this mentality of people worrying about what other people think about them. Um, especially with the youth, uh, when it comes to, well, I’m not good enough or I have, I’m not at that level of expertise.

[00:35:07] Susan De Lorenzo: [00:35:07] Yeah. 

[00:35:09] Mike: [00:35:09] You still matter somewhere in the scheme of things in the scheme of life, you just haven’t found where yet. You know, meanwhile, keep improving so that you can get to a mastery level that you can be happy with. You can be happy with, you know, I can’t play, uh, you know, I can’t play piano very well at all.

[00:35:29] I’m a better guitarist and I still don’t remember everything and I’m okay. But I’ve been told that I can sing well, I can play well. Okay. So it fits for that. Awesome. Somebody is happy. Yeah. That’s enough for me. You know, I’m not, I’m not trying to be on stage playing for two 20,000 people screaming at me.

[00:35:47] You know, like some of the jazz masters I love to watch, but it’s, but it’s enough. Same story here. I’m not the biggest podcast on, out in the podcast verse, but. I’m one of them and somebody out there is finding some value out of this. That’s good enough for me, you know, I’ll get to the next level when the time comes, you know, we’ve we had 

[00:36:06] Susan De Lorenzo: [00:36:06] feels good, doesn’t it?

[00:36:07] Mike: [00:36:07] Because I get good people like yourself, people that are, um, coaches, people that are therapists, people that are business owners, entrepreneurs, people that come in and share their stories. All the stories are very, very similar by the way. It’s really interesting. Um, and I aspire to bring people like, uh, Jordan Peterson on.

[00:36:25] To hear, you know, I want, I want people like that to come and share their perspective because they have a lot of, they have a lot of substance just like the rest of you. That’s why I have everybody here that I have now. Um, there are, there are quite a few that don’t fit our format.

[00:36:40] Susan De Lorenzo: [00:36:40]  Um, and we haven’t invited them 

[00:36:42] Mike: [00:36:42] and they, they will go somewhere else and there’ll be relevant where they’re at.

[00:36:46] Susan De Lorenzo: [00:36:46] Right. 

[00:36:47] Mike: [00:36:47] This is the part that, that is really frustrating to me is that people worry so much about, well, what if this person doesn’t like it? And one of that person doesn’t like it, then they won’t listen or they will follow. And that’s okay 

[00:36:59] Susan De Lorenzo: [00:36:59] for everyone out there 

[00:37:00] Mike: [00:37:00] folks. And that’s. Yeah, exactly. And that’s okay.

[00:37:04] Those are, those three words took me years to get used to and that’s okay. I’ve had numerous mentors tell me that. And it’s like, you keep forgetting those three words, don’t you? What? And that’s okay. And I think, I think if people and the proper timing and usage for those three words as well, it’s not just, well, you know, that sucked, I lost $10 million and that’s okay.

[00:37:24] Whoa, hold on. Hold on. Yeah. Yeah. That’s not what we meant. 

[00:37:29] Susan De Lorenzo: [00:37:29] Cut. 

[00:37:30] Mike: [00:37:30] Yeah, exactly. Okay. Let’s try that again. But, but using that, using that, and I’m sure you probably do this with your clients using that as a means to understand that’s just not where I belong right now. 

[00:37:42] Susan De Lorenzo: [00:37:42] Yeah. It may be redirecting you. Yeah. It may be telling you not now or not this way.

[00:37:47] Yep. And those are all good. That’s the feedback you want. Mike, you will want to know that. And, uh, there’s a great quote by Teddy Roosevelt. The president from the 20th century comparison is the thief of joy all day, all day, every day. 

[00:38:07] Mike: [00:38:07] Boy, if there’s not been truer words. Yeah. It’s it’s when you’re comparing yourself to yourself, you’ve got the right comparison.

[00:38:16] Susan De Lorenzo: [00:38:16] Yeah. 

[00:38:17] Mike: [00:38:17] When you’re comparing yourself to everybody else, you don’t know what they’re doing. You don’t know what their life circumstances are. You don’t know how much shit they’ve been through. You know, they may have been through more. They may have been through less. What relevance does that have to your life?

[00:38:29] Susan De Lorenzo: [00:38:29] And it might, most critics are the ones that haven’t taken the chances that you and I are taking. 

[00:38:34] Mike: [00:38:34] Yeah. That goes back to the old, the master has tried and failed more times than the beginner ever even has started. So yeah. I’m with you on that one too. 

[00:38:42] Susan De Lorenzo: [00:38:42] Yeah. Yeah. 

[00:38:44] Mike: [00:38:44] You said something earlier about, um, that you made reference to another old cliche water off a Duck’s back.

[00:38:50] Susan De Lorenzo: [00:38:50] Yes. Um, 

[00:38:51] Mike: [00:38:51] With the inference of, you know, everybody gets a little wet. We’re not necessarily saying that, that, you know, it’s just water off a Duck’s back. Interestingly enough, even at X feet gets wet at least for a little while. So just, just to, just to kind of follow up on that, it’s like, guys, you’re not going to get through life on skates.

[00:39:11] This is not going to happen. 

[00:39:12] Susan De Lorenzo: [00:39:12] No, even if I always say, you know, we, even, if you sat on the couch, you know, if there’s something that 

[00:39:21] Mike: [00:39:21] it’s real, it’s real, trust me. Yeah, no, you’re right though. It will, it doesn’t matter what you’re doing or where you’re doing it. It’s it’s going to happen. 

[00:39:30] Susan De Lorenzo: [00:39:30] Life. Just being afraid of being out in life, you cause real suffering.

[00:39:36] Yeah. 

[00:39:37] Mike: [00:39:37] Yeah, you gotta, you gotta, you gotta get past it by, by at least being resilient enough to when you wake up in the morning, what’s the first thing you ask yourself. 

[00:39:48] Susan De Lorenzo: [00:39:48] Am I breathing 

[00:39:50] Mike: [00:39:50] that’s for us older ones? Um, actually that’s that’s for just about anybody. You’re right. What would be the first question we should be asking ourselves?

[00:39:58] Susan De Lorenzo: [00:39:58] What am I grateful for? 

[00:40:01] Mike: [00:40:01] Gratitude. Perfect. 

[00:40:02] Susan De Lorenzo: [00:40:02] Yeah. Perfect. You know the greatest, I mean, obviously even when you think about one thing, you’re grateful for your energy changes, more expansive, you’ve come more optimistic. There’s something. If you’re in that low place and think about Monday mornings for so many people, we put this horrible thing around Monday and then this great thing around Friday, you know, That’s 

[00:40:27] Mike: [00:40:27] a problem, by the way, if you’re living for the weekend, you got some problems.

[00:40:30] Susan De Lorenzo: [00:40:30] Look at that. Yeah. Yeah. 

[00:40:32] Mike: [00:40:32] I mean, really she’s right. Look at that because if that’s what you’re looking forward to only to get yourself completely destroyed before Monday and then worry about Monday. Uh, I think you got it backwards. 

[00:40:43] Susan De Lorenzo: [00:40:43] And I used to have that kind of mentality in that corporate job it’s stopped.

[00:40:48] And this is a great piece of, um, perspective for anybody who’s in this situation where you’re going for something else, but you’re still in your old job. You got to change your identity while you’re walking into that job. So instead of being the corporate cubicle worker who wanted to be the life coach one day, I started walking into that job as the life coach, mentally putting on that.

[00:41:09] I’m a life coach. Doing this job right now. And there’s something about it that makes it like a bridge to your next part of your life. You understand why you’re there. And it’s actually easier to do the job knowing in the meantime, what am I doing? I’m writing, I’m getting clients, I’m working it out so that I’m becoming while I’m serving this other job.

[00:41:32] If you’re just serving this job and dreaming of someday, it’s going to be really hard to stay in that job. 

[00:41:38] Mike: [00:41:38] Yeah. I agree. Well, that’s killer. I hate having to do these breaks, but we’ve got another 30 seconds we’re going to take. When we come back, we’re going to talk about where Susan is going. What’s next for Susan?

[00:41:51] So about 30 seconds. We’ll be right back. 

***

So we’re having so much fun here. We’re actually laughing even on the show breaks. Um, just about, you know, how we’re, how we’re doing here. Um,

[00:42:06] As we do these check-ins on the breaks that we want to make sure everybody’s doing okay. And we’re just cracking up because of how much we’re, we’re actually enjoying this. We’re having a good time doing it. And we’re catching ourselves in some of our own habits. 

[00:42:19] Susan De Lorenzo: [00:42:19] Yeah, 

[00:42:21] Mike: [00:42:21] it is what it is. It is what it is.

[00:42:24] Um, What’s next for Susan? What? I mean, obviously, you’re you, you you’re built a practice. You’re you’re moving, you’ve got the book coming out. What’s 

[00:42:34] Susan De Lorenzo: [00:42:34] there’s always the next level as well is making sure the word will like this, getting the word out about the book and really making it, making sure it gets into the right hands of people that can actually use this and inspire people to, to really, um, Get help.

[00:42:52] It’s hard to be the lone ranger and rebuild your life. I’ve had to get help through therapists, life coaches, seminars, keeping people smarter, people more experienced people to me around to guide me, even if it’s listening to awesome YouTube speeches or whatever it is that comes around it, it’s like lifeblood.

[00:43:14] So, um, Being at that level, get of course attracting more clients. I love working with people. I love speaking. I think next would be once the book is out to start my own podcast, I did have a short time how to a radio show, uh, uh, 18 and 19 2018 at 19. So, um, I can totally see myself popping into podcasting myself.

[00:43:37] I really would love to do that. 

[00:43:39] Mike: [00:43:39] It’s probably, that’s probably the best idea for you to do the amount of the amount of stories that you can share and advice you can offer. It will be invaluable. I’m sure. So that, that I would say do it 

[00:43:52] Susan De Lorenzo: [00:43:52] yeah. Easier than putting a book in someone’s hand. Probably 

[00:43:55] Mike: [00:43:55] actually.

[00:43:56] Yeah. Cause I, I have written a book as well, and the amount of work it takes to promote a book is insane, but the amount of work it takes to yeah, the amount of work it takes to promote a podcast isn’t as. It’s still work intensive, but it’s not as heavy as having to promote a book as, as what’s required to promote a book.

[00:44:17] It’s, it’s a little, it’s a little easier. Um, and you can play with that one online, a lot easier as well. Um, especially if you, like you said, you keep the smarter people around you. They’ll tell you, um, I’ve got interns that are smarter than me and. 

[00:44:32] Susan De Lorenzo: [00:44:32] Oh, yeah. There’s it’s second nature for so many folks, but yeah, we’re the, I, I’m definitely the more of the novice and the student.

[00:44:41] Yeah. 

[00:44:42] Mike: [00:44:42] I’m still learning too. I’m still learning too. Um, most of the, obviously, because of all of the, uh, Lock downs that have been going on. Um, are most of you are presentations virtual right now, or, 

[00:44:55] Susan De Lorenzo: [00:44:55] yeah. Yeah. And you know, what’s been wonderful is word of mouth. And, um, I actually, um, I have a Facebook page it’s, uh, you know, facebook.com forward slash.

[00:45:06] Dream coach Susan. My business is live designed coaching with Susan dealer Lorenzo. And on this Facebook page, I do little videos of overcoming adversity of little things to do about low self-esteem or whatever is your thing right now. And, um, And in being able to put in boundaries, I have all kinds of things.

[00:45:26] So I get people that way to see something, a message resonates with them and they’ll reach out. That’s been more of 2020 for me. Um, yeah. And doing podcasts and things like that. That’s been great too, 

[00:45:39] Mike: [00:45:39] if that becomes the case. Um, if you can get somebody to show you how to use, what’s called an OBS, which is an open broadcast system, um, to start doing some lives.

[00:45:50] Where you can actually invite people to come and join you and do just small little open sessions. 

[00:45:56] Susan De Lorenzo: [00:45:56] Oh, I love that idea. I just wrote that down, Mike. Thank you. 

[00:46:00] Mike: [00:46:00] It’s OBS is a free software that you can download. It’s a little bit of a learning curve. That’s why I said, get somebody can teach you how to use it, but once you’ve got that and you know how to do that.

[00:46:10] Yeah, I could see you doing some live. Hey, come, come ask me anything kind of, 

[00:46:14] Susan De Lorenzo: [00:46:14] Oh, I love those kinds of questions. Well, that’s why I love podcast interviews too, is that we have these times back and forth like this. 

[00:46:22] Mike: [00:46:22] Yeah, that would be awesome. That’s another way to do it. When does the book slated to come up?

[00:46:26] Susan De Lorenzo: [00:46:26] It’s going to be next to this manuscript form. Now I’m about to give it to my publisher. I’m self-publishing through bell bullet press a division of hay house, which I love because that’s all about transformation work. Um, so yeah, I’ll keep you posted Mike, but it’s looking like mid, mid 20, 21. 

[00:46:43] Mike: [00:46:43] Awesome.

[00:46:45] Yeah, absolutely. Let us know. Cause we’d be happy to promote it on our social and you know, of course we’re going to be promoting this on, on all of our social, uh, guys for four. Any of the links that you need, like what she’s just mentioned and her website and her book and everything, that’ll all be done in the comment section.

[00:47:01] Um, Wow. We just made it 

[00:47:05] Susan De Lorenzo: [00:47:05] awesome. 

[00:47:07] Mike: [00:47:07] A couple of minutes to spare. 

[00:47:09] Susan De Lorenzo: [00:47:09] Oh, 

[00:47:11] Mike: [00:47:11] good. First time around. We always try to keep, we always try to keep it to format second time around, you know, if we can, can have Susan back one day to share some of the stories and some other insights, it can roll as long as it needs to roll.

[00:47:21] Um, but for, for the most part, if you guys have any questions for Susan, um, she will have the link. For both YouTube and, um, anchor. So feel free to ask a question in the comments. If you’re watching this, she’ll be able to come back and answer, um, or, or hit one of the links, go on over to where she’s at and ask her there.

[00:47:41] You’re more than welcome to. We would love for that to happen. Uh, if you’re listening to, if you’re watching us on YouTube, obviously make sure you’re hitting the subscribe, but boy, you know, I had a cup of coffee at my tongue’s up already checking 

[00:47:52] Susan De Lorenzo: [00:47:52] out Java chat all about. Yeah, right. 

[00:47:56] Mike: [00:47:56] Me just about caffeine, having good time talking with Brittany, make sure that you hit the subscribe button and the bell next to it.

[00:48:02] So that you’re alerted to the next time we have wonderful guests like Susan on, uh, we post twice a week right now, next year, we’re going to try to keep that possibly even more. Um, there is a consideration that we may go long form, uh, which will be very interesting. 

[00:48:20] Susan De Lorenzo: [00:48:20] I’ve got to see it. 

[00:48:21] Mike: [00:48:21] Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:48:23] Cause that’s then it becomes an example of long form is Joel Rose. 

[00:48:29] Susan De Lorenzo: [00:48:29] Yeah. Oh yeah. That is not for me. 

[00:48:31] Mike: [00:48:31] That’s very helpful. I don’t know that I want to go that long, but I had this already where we’ve gone long enough to be about an hour and 15 hour and 20 minutes and that’s close enough. Um, so yeah, we may do that next year.

[00:48:46] If you’re listening to us on any of the podcast platforms, there’s about 11 or 12 of them. Make sure you subscribed there. Um, if you wouldn’t mind, if you like what you hear, please write a review on any one of those platforms. Uh, if you’re listening to us on anchor.fm, thanks for hanging out at our home base.

[00:49:03] Feel free to give us some support there every little bit helps. Uh, thank you Susan for coming and hanging 

[00:49:09] Susan De Lorenzo: [00:49:09] out with us. I appreciate it. That’s an awesome, um, and wishing your listeners all the best to you guys. 

[00:49:17] Mike: [00:49:17] Thank you very much. Uh, for Susan de Lorenzo, myself coffee with Mike, stay up, stay safe, stay healthy and live chat for now.

For more information on Java chat visit www.java chat, podcast.com. You’ve been listening to coffee with Mike on Java chat tune in weekly to this podcast. For the next episode, you can also download or subscribe today on your favorite podcast platform. A production of Oasis media group, LLC. Located in Las Vegas. Yes, Nevada, copyright 2019, all rights reserved.

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